Paul Maduros pama42@yahoo.com Sun Dec 31 13:56:13 PST 2000 I've said this before , I do think that Jerry had a good chance at beating Foreman because of styles. I think that if Jerry had Angelo Dundee in his corner it would have made a difference. He did have Gil Clancy , but that was late in his career. Jerry showed in the Lyle and Shavers bouts just what level he could fight at if trained well. I know that Jerry had his share of personal problems I'm sure this had to effect his career. He was foremost a human being and family man. Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Sun Dec 31 13:18:57 PST 2000 Jerry might have surprised alot of people if he had faced George Foreman. He did well againsnt big punchers if he had an advantage in hand speed. He would have had this advantage agaisnt George. In watching the tapes of Jerry vs. Lyle and Jerry vs. Shavers I noticed that Jerry was beating both of them to the punch. Lyle didn't seem to be able to get set enough to consistantly land his bombs and it seemed that Shavers was mostly missing before Jerry hurt him and knocked him out. The way George would wind up to throw his punches, I could see Jerry being the excellent counter puncher that he was, landing some hard shots to George's head and body which would have earned him respect. Some people might say that if Joe Frazier and Ken Norton, who both defeated Jerry, got knocked out by George, then how could Jerry hope to do better. The difference is that the old cliche that styles make fights is true. Both Frazier and Norton could not fight as well as Jerry did backing up and by charging into Foreman, they faced annilation if they didn't hurt Foreman first (and they didn't hurt George first). Jerry punched hard enough so that he could have hurt George if he landed his best punches. If George hurt Jerry early though, then George may have notched another quick knockout on his belt. Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Sun Dec 31 10:02:52 PST 2000 Tommy Morrison---involved in some brutal fights, such as when he was KOed by Ray Mercer (one of the hardest punches I've ever seen). Surprised me when he beat Foreman. Morrison didn't have the talent to be a great fighter--- just had the movie background and some good skills---but not championship caliber. Speaking of Foreman, I watched the extended version of Quarry-Shavers, featuring post-fight commentary and interviews. It seemed at that point that Jerry Quarry was in line to fight against Foreman before Foreman would defend against Ali---all signs pointed to a Foreman-Quarry match. What happened? I think that would have been an interesting fight. Clearly, Foreman was the biggest hitter out there. But if he didn't stop Jerry on cuts, and Jerry could have stored up some energy and lasted into the later rounds, who knows?!!! Paul Maduros pama42@yahoo.com Sat Dec 30 19:11:57 PST 2000 While we are going back and forth on these issues I think would should keep in mind just what James Quarry is going through right now. His brother Michael is where Jerry was in 1995 , his father Jack Quarry is very ill and his wife as well. I heard once that this site gets around 7000 hits a day. Well if thats true if each person would make a donation even if it's only a dollar donation we could get to TJQF'S goals even quicker. GOD bless ldp lpeterson@northpoint.net Sat Dec 30 19:11:45 PST 2000 lets talk them game . leave the color thing alone Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Sat Dec 30 15:23:28 PST 2000 The race issue does get tiresome because it seems like we can't even bring up the name of a white fighter without someone thinking that we are trying to dig up the great white hope issue. Believe it or not, alot of us Quarry fans are not waiting for that great white messiah to come along in the heavyweight division. I only brought up the fact that I am not 100% white ( white and native american) because some people think that everyone at this site is white. I belong to a more important race and that is the human race. I am only going to bring up one more white fighter at this time and that is: "drum roll please," TOMMY MORRISON. O.K. folks, have at it. Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Sat Dec 30 06:49:19 PST 2000 GEEZ! I stay off the site for a couple weeks and then return to see a volley of posts on the good ole race issue! I'm 37, so I wasn't around for Marciano's fights. Based on the highlights I've seen, I'd rate him highly as tough, determined and a hard hitter. True, the best fighters he took on were past their prime, sort of like when the 2nd best heavyweight in my lifetime, Larry Holmes, beat up on the best heavyweight in my lifetime, Muhammad Ali. Or also similiar to when the hard hitting Tyson put Holmes out. Yet in my opinion, Marciano didn't duck anybody---he knocked out whoever they put in front of him. He also had the good sense to leave the game undefeated and healthy...and stayed retired until the tragic end. Race plays into it only because people like seeing the unexpected. The unexpected right now would be for a quality white heavyweight to emerge as a dominant fighter. I think many people (including me) have become fans of Tiger Woods because it was so unique to see an African American (and a YOUNG man at that) go on the PGA tour and rewrite the record books! It also helps that Woods has a great personality and people seem drawn to him. The point here is that when a white heavyweight has some success, don't automatically assume that it's a white-black superiority thing---it's really just people enjoying seeing the unexpected happen. As for Gerry Cooney, say whatever you want about the man, but he was a major hitter. He lasted 13 rounds with Larry Holmes, in Holmes prime. That in itself is an accomplishment. He had devestating knockouts against the best of the senior circuit, Norton, Jimmy Young, etc. He was a good guy outside the ring. Why belittle him? The public paid a lot and got him big paydays because he was a WHITE heavyweight? So what was he supposed to do, walk away from the money? ldp lpeterson@northpoint.net Fri Dec 29 18:37:05 PST 2000 white black brown yellow the blood that flows is red . put on a pair of gloves somtime , step in to the ring . there is no one to help you . nobody to block or hold the other guy from sending you to hear the dragon roar . open that door sometime . it is not about color it is about heart . Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Thu Dec 28 16:30:12 PST 2000 JP, I would never attack anyone, least of all hiding behind the great name of Quarry ( by sending anyone Email using anything but my real name). Just because I may disagree with you at times, doesn't mean I am attacking you. I have a good heart and I don't ever try to take cheap shots at anyone. Oh by the way, some people would not consider me white because I am both white and native american ( does that count as being non-white,I don't know?). I actually belong to a federally recognized indian tribe. Now if you want to comment, then I will name one of the best native american heavyweights of recent times and that is Joe Hipp--Ha,Ha, Ha, even I get a chuckle out of that one. All kidding aside, Hipp has the guts enough to get in the ring and he deserves credit for that. Paul Maduros pama42@yahoo.com Thu Dec 28 16:13:24 PST 2000 I can assure you Mr. jpierce I will never make any kind of attacks on anyone who visits this site. I did try to defend Joe Frazier at his site when someone attack Joe. It won't happen again. It's up to the webmaster over there to worry about it. As far as needing another Marciano how does anyone know theres not one, maybe in another sport? I don't root for people based on color. It's the man himself I root for. DURAN , HOLMES , CHAVEZ all great champions don't need to keep risking their lives in the ring. JP JPierce@aol.com Thu Dec 28 14:19:24 PST 2000 Just out of curiosity I wonder if any non-white participants have ever come to this site? That is besides "you know who" whom I'm being compared to. (After reading past posts I doubt he'll ever return). Sure wish I were as articulate at expressing my points as him and Joe Krause. Just curious, no big deal. PS:Please don't mind me I'm just a Michiganite (from Detroit) with nothing better to do. (LOL). JP JPierce@aol.com Thu Dec 28 14:04:57 PST 2000 Okay folks. Guess it's time to drop this subject. The last thing I need is to be accused of "stiring things up" again (he he he). It's just that though I do not care about the skin colour of the great fighters I may still have a bit of a "white man's complex". Meaning I still do "notice" that since way in the 50's there hasn't been a dominant quality white boxer. Quarry was competetive but not "dominant" like Marciano. There are other sports as well. Check out the sprint competion in track and field. Marice Green and other top Afro-American sprinters. To all the non-white participants who come on this site please don't misunderstand my post. As I've stated before I'm a huge Norton fan and believe he deserves his props. If I were racist I obviously wouldn't pick him to be my favorite. Since I'm obviously putting my foot in my mouth even deeper I'll stop here. What is the foundation up to lately? Is anything being done about the punch drunk syndrome? The Ali Act obviously isn't working since boxers are still fighting when they shouldn't. Look at the Kotsa Tsyu vs Chavez fight. Duran and larry Holmes still want to fight. This crap must stop. PS:Please people enough of the negative emails. I may have to change my address. I hope Paul and Kent aren't part of the attackers. I know they would be brave enough to use their real names instead of "Quarry defender", Quarry Lover, Quarry-fan, Heavyweight Champ, The Fighting-Irishman etc etc. ldp lpeterson@nortpoint.net Thu Dec 28 11:06:05 PST 2000 anyone who can step thru the ropes into the world of the squared circle ,were theere is no place to hide from yourself . should never be laughed at . Paul Maduros pama42@yahoo.com Wed Dec 27 19:08:04 PST 2000 I will say this, the webmaster at the Frazier site has lost all control. You have one person over there creating all the problems. It's a shame because Joe was a great champion. Ray joekevin@cs.com Wed Dec 27 19:06:05 PST 2000 Hi family, well I guess I'll add my feelings about Marciano. It is my belief that Walcott, Charles, and Moore were past their prime when they fought Marciano, good so far? But, granting the fact they were not in their primes they were still very formidable. With the exception of Ali, no Heavyweight Champion successfully defended against a better group of fighters. Compare the challengers the other champions defended against, and my feeling is that the other challengers don't compare to the ageing but still potent Walcott, Charles, Moore. Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Wed Dec 27 18:10:38 PST 2000 If I am one of the dudes that is just going to respond with more BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, then here goes: I agree with JP's assesment that Rocky Marciano was somewhat untested because all of the name fighters he beat were all in their mid-thirties and above. Joe Louis, Ezzard Charles, Jersey Joe Walcott, and Archie Moore were all great fighters but were past their primes when they faced Marciano. He did beat who they put in front of him and he retired undefeated, so his place in history is secure. He may have had a harder time in the talent rich 70's but we will never know. IS IT STILL BLAH, BLAH, BLAH when I agree with JP? You are right Paul, JP does kind of remind me of an old friend of ours. I hope he continues to come to this site though, because I get a kick out of waiting to see what he is going to come up with next! Paul Maduros pama42@yahoo.com Wed Dec 27 16:48:34 PST 2000 No need to keep bringing up the race issue. I refuse to make comments on that. Marciano would have done fine up until the 80's when heavyweights just got even larger. Everybody fights sombody old in their career. You fight what's available. Bobick did not have that much talent , but tried. I don't think he should be laughed at though. JPierce reminds me of someone I used to know. umm , wonder who??? JP JPierce@aol.com Wed Dec 27 10:41:48 PST 2000 What's up folks. Sorry for the belated greetings but was gone out of the city for a bit. Anyways happy holidays to all. As for the Cooney issue I brought up. Ray is the most accurate. I see he reads my posts well. COONEY IS HYPE PURE AND SIMPLE! WE NEED ANOTHER MARCIANO! That's for white folks who care. I myself don't. To be honest though even amoungst todays weak heavyweight crop we see that the white boxers are pathetic. Look at Golata. Physically he should be on top but mentally he's a freakin nut. Look at the Bowe and Grant fights. Golata was winning both then he goes crazy and quits. The Klitzo Bros are huge bums who can never beat the top unless they're shot fighters. Look at the Byrd fiasco. Okay Klit claims he had an injured shoulder but Byrd was still able to go all the way with the younger bro (dispite losing). Oleg Maskaev had impressive fights with Tua and Hassim. He beat the latter and only loss due to an unexpected explosive blow from Tua in the 10th round. After all that he goes on to lose to a little known Canadian journyman (Kirk Johnson). As you can see white folks suck in the heavyweight division. Come to think of it I wonder how Marciano would've done if he faught the more talented 70's fighters instead of the weak field he faught? Walcott was 37 and Moore was 40 (while Marciano was in his prime). No one counts the Louis fight since he was obviously ove the hill. I believe that a prime Louis would've beaten Marciano. I hope Ray also participates. The other two dudes will just respond with more blah blah blah. So hard headed. Let's just face reality. White heavyweights can't box (This should be the sequal to the movie White Men Can't Jump, ha ha ha ha ha haaaa). Instead of Wesly Snipes and Woody Haroldson we could get Denzil Washington and Tom Hanks or any other actors LOL!!! Who could play that dope Cooney or that joke Bobick LOL!!! Matt K mkowalsk@compuserve.com Mon Dec 25 12:04:06 PST 2000 The sad story of Jerry reminds us of what a dirty business pro boxing is. Other athletes have unions and pension plans and medical insurance etc. Pro boxers get the shaft unless they make it to a Title. I see some posts here about boxers whose careers were "derailed" by a loss in a big fight. There is more to it than that. Some guys just fight until they get a big paynight, even if they lose, and then their desire dies. It takes a lot of desire to get whacked in the head for a living. Some modern fighters like Ruddock or Golota were tough until they got big $ fights (vs. Tyson & Bowe) and then were never the same. PAUL MADUROS pama42@yahoo.com Sun Dec 24 13:42:45 PST 2000 MERRY CHRISTMAS TO JAMES AND ALL THE QUARRY FAMILY. I WILL ALWAYS SUPPORT THIS CAUSE , GOD BLESS ALL Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Sun Dec 24 12:25:31 PST 2000 MERRY CHRISTMAS AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR TO THE ENTIRE QUARRY FAMILY AND TO ALL OF THE FRIENDS AND FANS OF THE QUARRY BROTHERS. Tony TAT8227@aol.com Sun Dec 24 07:09:06 PST 2000 First, I want to wish the happiest of holidays to the Quarry Family and to commend James for the outstanding job he's doing with the Foundation. Secondly, I would like to ask if anyone knows where I can obtain the Mike Quarry/Mike Rossman Trilogy? It seems that those fights have become as scarce as the JQ/Buster Mathis bout. I would appreciate your assistance. Paul Maduros pama42@yahoo.com Sat Dec 23 20:26:31 PST 2000 It's true , Gerry Cooney was hyped fron the beginning. He had power and nothing else. He was a very nice guy who was destroyed after he lost to Larry Holmes. His management seemed good. Some people get Gerry Cooney mixed up with Jerry Quarry. I always straighten them out on that. Nothing personal against Cooney , but he was a no hope , not a white hope. Ray Joekevin@cs.com Sat Dec 23 18:35:44 PST 2000 Hi family, I would just like to weigh-in with my thoughts about "legitimate white heavyweight contenders," since that theme seems to dominate this page lately. Jerry Quarry was a legitimate contender, just look at his record and the fighters he beat: Patterson, Spencer, Mathis, Foster,Lyle, Shavers. Even if one allows that both Patterson fights were close and the decision in the 2nd fight could have gone to Patterson; Jerry beat the other previously mentioned contenders convincingly. Jerry was a legitimate contender because he beat these fighters, and not because he was white. Yes, being white may have increased his popularity, but the fact remains he earned his rankings legitimately. George Chuvalo was a gladiator, when Chuvalo showed fought you were assured of a fight. Most times he fought a ranked contender he was not expected to win, and normally he did'nt (I was at the Quarry-Chuvalo fight, Quarry was the victim of a fast count by Zack Clayton, see my entry on this page in Oct 2000 describing this fight). Now we come to Gerry Cooney. I disagree with those who say he was mismanaged. I think his managers did a fantastic job managing him. He left boxing a rich man with no apparent brain damage. He never beat a legitimate contender. Jimmy Young and Kenny Norton and Ron Lyle were old and shot. Cooney was knocked out by Larry Holmes, a forty year old George Foreman, and a light-heavyweight Michael Spinks. This hardly qualifies one to be considered a good fighter. I don't think any boxer in history was less deserving of the fame and fortune than Gerry Cooney. If he fought legitimate fighter on his way up I am afraid his managers knew he be exposed for the hoax that he was, and as a result they moved him beautifully in a position where there was little risk of exposure, and great opportunity to become rich. I am sorry to be so judgemental, but Gerry Cooney was a modern day Primo Carnera, who was able to keep his money Paul Maduros pama42yahoo.com Sat Dec 23 14:06:57 PST 2000 Kent , you are so right. You have Bonavena giving Frazier and Ali both a hard time. Hey , nobody just walked on Oscar. When I was very young I used to think all you had to be was big and strong , but there is a lot more to it. The thing about Marciano was that he had great leverage in his punches, not just depending on muscle strengh. I've seen guy's that look good body wise , then you put them in the ring and they fold right up. I'd say Jerry did great for a 195lb heavyweight. Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Sat Dec 23 13:01:40 PST 2000 As far as the pathetic crop of white heavyweights since Rocky Marciano I wouldn't inlclude Ingemar Johannson as being pathetic. I would say that Jerry Quarry, Johannson, Joe Bugner, George Chavalo, and Oscar Bonevena ( I know that some would consider him Latin),were all very competitive with the fine group of black heavyweights that have come since Marciano. As I see it, the problem with heavyweights of all races these days is a lack of proper training. Some huge strong guy thinks that being big and strong is enough to make him a good fighter, so he doesn't learn the proper fundamentals. I had forgotten what a well trained boxer Jerry was until I started watching my highlight videos. I got in a argument one time with a man who said that there is no way that Joe Louis could compete today because he was too small. I told the man that not only could Joe compete, I would have grave doubts that most of today's giants would have much of a chance against Joe because Joe was so well trained. Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Fri Dec 22 19:50:13 PST 2000 Does anyone know where I can get a copy of the Ron Lyle verses Earnie Shavers fight? I understand that Shavers has a highlight video, but I would be surprised if that fight is on it as Lyle knocked out Shavers. I have heard that the Lyle/Shavers fight was every bit as wild as the Foreman/Lyle fight with both fighters hitting the deck. Too bad I can't go back in time with my VCR and tape some of the fights I missed. That might not help with the Lyle/Shavers fight though because I don't remember it being on regular T.V. Paul Maduros pama42@yahoo.com Fri Dec 22 17:24:29 PST 2000 As far as good white heavyweights , I don't hear much about any white guys wanting to box. There are other sports that offer more and you don't have to be number 1. Foster never regained himself after the Quarry loss and neither did Thad Spencer. No matter who you are or what color, you stick around boxing long enough . You get beat Ali / Norton included. JP JPierce@aol.com Fri Dec 22 16:00:23 PST 2000 Slade is wrong in his Foster profile. It was the loss to Ali not Quarry that messed him up. After the loss to Quarry Foster took it in stride as a learning experience on the way up. It was the loss to Ali that made Foster realize that maybe he just isn't good enough to beat the top fighters. Remember this fight took place in 1972. Three years after the Quarry experience. He made it clear after the fight that he put everything into the Ali fight. Ali's hands were simply too quick. He admitted that Ali was the best fighter he faught. I think after that Foster seemed to have lost a big part of his desire. Foster could have been another Norton. Only my man Norton could solve Ali at his prime. Norton succeded where guys like Foster failed. As for Cooney he's nothing but hype. PERIOD. The great white dope. Bobick of course is even worse. The big white joke (he he he). Man it's tough to be white and have to watch the pathetic white heavyweight crop. WE NEED ANOTHER MARCIANO! Until then I'll attach myself to the superior Black crop. The last true great white heavyweight was Quarry. Too bad he had to come along when the division was so competative. You know who I'm talking about. Glad my man Norton beat that jabroni Kirkman's behind. Now Kirkman is spewing crap in some boxing magazine. The only boxers he could beat are Cooney and Bobick (LOL). Kirkman should shut up. The loser. Kent Appel orononside@aol.com Fri Dec 22 15:17:11 PST 2000 Slade, You are so right about Gerry Cooney's carrer being adversely affected. He was totally mis-handled by his management who did a great disservice to him by "force feeding" him to Holmes before he was ready. They ruined a fine prospect by cashing in on the "great white hope" B.S. He should have been facing some tough contenders on the way up like James "Quick" Tillis, Pinklon Thomas, and Gerrie Coetzee, or even a tough journeyman like Scott Ledoux. He may have even experinced a loss or two, but at least he would have been ready when his title shot came. Instead, he fought some name opponents who were over the hill when they fought him. Fighters like Ken Norton, Jimmy Young, and Ron Lyle. I did well when I bet on Holmes with some of my friends who fell victim to the "great white hype" before the Holmes/Cooney bout. I based my bet on the fact that I saw the Cooney vs. Young fight and I remebered that for 3 rounds, Young boxed circles around Cooney. Cooney finally caught up to Young in the fourth round and cut him and trapped him against the ropes. Young was out on his feet when the ref. stopped the fight. I saw something though because if an over the hill Jimmy Young, without much of a punch, could give the up and coming Cooney fits before the stoppage, then what would an in prime Larry Holmes with a punch do to Cooney? After the Holmes fight Cooney should have picked up the pieces and fought often and against tough opponents, but he didn't do that and of course his carrer went down hill. Slade sladek@netcnct.net Fri Dec 22 03:35:59 PST 2000 Didn't Boone win 1 or 2 National Championships in the amateur ranks (maybe AAU in '64 or '65)? Seems like he had some early accomplishments that picked him as a future threat to the heavyweight ranks. Looking back on his Foreman fight(from a boxing fan point of view and I could be totally wrong), I thought Boone's fans, trainers and maybe Boone himself over reacted to the Foreman loss. George totally dominated and overwhelmed Kirkman - but hey, it was still just a loss in the process of developing a fighter. I was surprised he took a 2 year absence after the Foreman fight, rather working on his skills and moving forward. Thinking back, it reminds me of other fighters who's careers were de-railed because of a particular loss. Mac Foster in his loss to Jerry and Cooney's loss to Holmes seem like examples. Paul Maduros pama42@yahoo.com Thu Dec 21 21:29:03 PST 2000 Boone Kirkman , now there's a name I havn't heard in over 25 yrs. From what I remember tough , but not in Jerry's class skill wise. Might have made it interesting but I chose Jerry in about 5 or 6 rds. I don't believe he was ever a real title threat. I do hope he's doing well though. Joe Krause sadmspats@yahoo.com Thu Dec 21 21:17:47 PST 2000 Foreman also destroyed Kirkman in the real match in the 2nd round in 1970. I have that fight and it wasn't pretty. Kirkman was a very solid pro who ended his career with a record of 36-6 24 KO's. He retired Doug Jones when he knocked him out in their rematch in 1967. He had many wins over solid fighters like a faded Eddie Machen in 1967, and Amos Lincoln in 1970. When he was destroyed by Foreman he took off two years in 1971-1972. He won his first 10 fights after coming back including a decision win over Jimmy Ellis in 1973. He then disclocated his shoulder in a loss to Memphis Al Jones. He then lost his next three fights. He lost to Ken Norton and Ron Lyle by late knockouts, then lost a decision to Randy Neumann. He won his last four fights before retiring for good in 1978. He would have lasted a while with Jerry, but in all honesty it would have been a major upset if Kirkman could have beaten him. Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Thu Dec 21 19:51:05 PST 2000 Interesting note about Boone Kirkman, he was one of the so called fearsome fivesome who fought George Foreman when George took on 5 opponents in one day for 3 rounds each in a 15 round exibition match. If I remember correctly, three of the other fighters were: Pedro Agosto, Terry Daniels, and Alonzo Johnson. I can't remember who the fifth man was. Kirkman did well in his three rounds, being one of two of the fighters to go the full three rounds (George knocked out the other three). George did control the action though and he knocked Kirkman down. G Kielian sputzy0@aol.com Thu Dec 21 17:24:19 PST 2000 I posted a letter yesterday regarding my recollection of Boone Kirkman. I must have a selective memory. I only recalled his early career, when Mr. Hurley was his manager. I remembered his career ending by being overwhelmed by George Foreman in the Garden. (And many a tough scrapper was overwhelmed by Mr. Foreman in that period- Chuvalo, Norton and the great Joe Frazier come quickly to mind) I never knew (or forgot) that Boone continued fighting until 1978, with a respectable record! Anybody who fights the names that Mr. Kirkman fought over an extended career has earned and deserves respect. I'm sorry that the letter posted yesterday didn't show that respect. I'm very happy to hear that Boone is in excellent physical condition and continues to exercise. Best of health to you Boone! G Kielian john hazard dhazard@hotmail.com Thu Dec 21 15:07:03 PST 2000 Dear Jerry, I want to take a moment and thank you for the great fights. You fought them all. You had the heart of a lion and always gave 100%. In a different era you would have ruled the Heavyweights. I know you are looking down today and thinking, what is going on? We could use your help cleaning up the division and putting the word respect back in the game. We miss you, rest in peace. Sincerely, John Hazard Sonia Hathaway(Quarry) SHath2163@aol.com Thu Dec 21 10:10:03 PST 2000 HELLO ALL! WE HOPE YOU ALL HAVE A VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS, AND A GREAT NEW YEAR! UNCLE JERRY, YOU ARE MISSED AND THOUGHT OF DAILY, "I LOVE YOU" Gloria April gapril@yahoo.com Thu Dec 21 10:09:41 PST 2000 Hi James! Sal, my husband, asked me to e-mail you on his behalf to let you know that he has not forgotten about you. He no longer works at WCHE in West Chester, PA. As of October 16th he works at WSER in Elkton, MD which is a sister station to WXHL in Newark, DE (they have a contemporary Christian format). He doesn't have access to the Internet where he is, and we don't have a computer at home, which is why you haven't heard from him lately. So if you tried to e-mail him at WCHE and didn't receive a response, that's why! He is still very interested in what you're doing at The Jerry Quarry Foundation, so if you would like to correspond with him by way of MY e-mail address (accessible to me here at work), I will be sure to print it out and deliver it to him for you. I read your note about your wife's illness. Please know that Sal and I will be praying for her, and for you too. Good luck in your move back to Palm Springs, and please keep in touch with us. Have a wonderful holiday season! Your friends in Wilmington, Delaware - Sal & Gloria April James Quarry brandiquarry3@msn.com Wed Dec 20 21:13:07 PST 2000 Most of you know we have been in Oregon since 9/97. I am a loan officer and a realistate appraiser. I have requested a transfer back to Southern California. the reason for the request is that my wife Linda ( Brandi ) is because her health is going very bad fast. She requested that she would like to be close to her family. My Company World Savings, has granted this request. By the end of January, 2001 we will be back near Palm Springs. This will work out better for her and TJQF. She just had a major bypass for circulation to her legs. Now her kidney is failing. this is all due to hardening of the arteries desease. They doctors are also checking her out for Lupus. The reason why I am writing all this is to let you know we will be relocating. I will let you know when the transfer begins. We will probably be off line for a couple of weeks, not TJQF. James Quarry brandiquarry3@msn.com Wed Dec 20 20:58:58 PST 2000 Boone Kirkman is now a truck driver in the state of Washington. Jerry was offered $50,000 to fight him the year Jerry fought Ken Norton. Jerry turned down the $50,000 to fight Norton for $175,000. I talked with Boone this year at a Retired Boxers Association of Oregon, at one of thier picnics. This guy is still in very good shape. I couldn't believe how big he was. He was another guy that reminded me of how really small Jerry was in the heavyweight division. G Kielian sputzy0@aol.com Wed Dec 20 19:55:09 PST 2000 Boone Kirkman was a heavyweight out of the Seattle area in the mid60's. He had an impressive string of knockouts against "opponents" but when he attempted to move up in competition got blasted into retirement. Boone must be a "The older I get the better I was" kind of guy. charles anderson ctjjandfam@aol.com Wed Dec 20 18:42:22 PST 2000 james, i just read an article in ring magazine about boone kirkman. says he would haved love to fight jerry when they were amatures. seems as they were both phenoms then and why did they not ever fight as pros? i say jerry knocks him out inside 3rds.(sorry, boone if you read this). what do you know about this former heavyweight? thanks and merry CHRISTMAS PAUL MADUROS pama42@yahoo.com Wed Dec 20 18:15:39 PST 2000 Some people have no respect , this is not a ad billboard. Slade sladek@netcnct.net Wed Dec 20 14:58:14 PST 2000 Beyond Boxing... I thought Jerry Quarry had charisma and charm. He seemed to be the type of person who could have been alot of things (not to down play his excellent boxing skills). Intelligent, Handsome and always Positive to his fans. I recall reading once or twice in the Ring & Boxing Illustrated Magazines, writers stating that "Jerry needs to get away from the special guest TV appearances and get away from the recording studio and focus on Boxing". Actually, I would have liked to have seen him do more of that kind of stuff - he was a real talented fella. Well....it's snowing in the Columbia Gorge I got to hit the road - see you folks later, Slade. JohnnyQ JohnQW@yahoo.com Tue Dec 19 15:38:56 PST 2000 Here is a VERY ROUGH English translation of Mr. Steinhoff's last letter: "Mr. Appel wrote course genes on the weekend the fact that I overlook with my last contributions, which is the decision for the box port a freiwillige decision of each individual user, and dasich overlooks. I see natural this somewhat differently. A boxer begins his sport not with 20-25 years, but must as a child starting from 8-10 years at the latest have already begun in such a way, if he wants to become a professional sportsman such as Muhamed ali or Jerry Quarry. At this age one does not see however the dying brain cells or Exboxer, with which one can make, what one wants, since the Exboxer has no more heading for thinking. As a child one does not think also more drueber, who other effects the Punch Drunk syndrome can have. As a child one sees only successes of the boxer, one sees on the television, how a winner the belt is high-held and celebrated. Therefore the boxer for many children and also young people develop to Idolen, and a Idol wants one to copy. Thus many children and young person come into the box port. Which decision they fell thereby for their life, cannot foresee yet. Naturally no box coach will clear it up over the Punch Drunk syndrome. Parents are not cleared up likewise. A case is me well-known, there I with a Exboxerin, which detected in time the true face of this sport was friendly. Their friend went in a fight K.o., fell for one week into the Coma and since completely different humans became. Their parents informed only now about the Punch Drunk syndrome and make themselves today heaviest forwards . . . glish: I can meet a genuine freiwillige decision only if I know the pro and cons of the decision. The box beginner, that in the child or jugendalter does not begin is in addition anyhow yet old enough. And if it is times old then enough, it is mostly already too late. A boxer, who more aealter iszt, than and than child already began 20 years, one does not get there no more raus. Therefore my judgement the necessity is present to protect humans by a box prohibition against itself. There is already this protection of humans from itself within other areas. like that it is forbidden for example, without driving belt auto. It is not my free decision to buckle me or not, even if I endanger " only " me, if I drive without belt auto. On the other hand regard I a box prohibition third-protecting also as. What is, if a boxer of many years lost sections of his concentration ability, and at a red traffic light someone in the back drauf drives? That, that was in front is now suddenly likewise (although in smaller extent) by the box port damaged, and its own decision was not it. Likewise it was also not the own free decision of a guard, who was flogged by Mike Tyson, because Tyson lost the ability to control its Agressionen." James Quarry brandiquarry3@msn.com Tue Dec 19 15:19:02 PST 2000 JP, you are mistaking Paul Drolet. Paul is a die hard fan of Jerry Quarry. I also went into a partnership with him to write Jerry's biography. Paul Drolet is a writer out of Canada. Soon you will see his work. JP JPierce@aol.com Tue Dec 19 09:25:33 PST 2000 Oh give us a break Paul "Bernd Steinhoff" Drolet! Yeah I'm on to you Mr."Translator". Bernd Steinhoff BSteinh299@aol.com Tue Dec 19 00:02:37 PST 2000 Herr Appel hat am verganggenen Wochenende geschrieben, daß ich bei meinen letzten Beiträgen übersehe, das die Entscheidung für den Boxsport eine freiwillige Entscheidung jedes einzelnen Teilnehmers ist, und dasich das übersehe. Natürlich sehe ich dies etwas anders. Ein Boxer fängt seinen Sport nicht mit 20-25 Jahren an, sondern muß bereits als Kind so ab 8-10 Jahren spätestens angefangen haben, wenn er ein Profisportler wie Muhamed ali oder Jerry Quarry werden will. In diesem Alter sieht man aber nicht die sterbenden Gehirnzellen oder Exboxer, mit denen man machen kann, was man will, da die Exboxer selber keinen Kopf mehr zum Nachdenken haben. Als Kind denkt man auch nicht drüber nach, welche sonstigen Auswirkungen das Punch-Drunk-Syndrom haben kann. Als Kind sieht man nur die Erfolge der Boxer, man sieht im Fernsehen, wie ein Sieger den Gürtel hochhält und gefeiert wird. Daher entwickeln sich die Boxer für viele Kinder und auch Jugendliche zu Idolen, und ein Idol will man nachahmen. So kommen viele Kinder und Jugendliche in den Boxsport. Welche Entscheidung sie damit für ihr Leben fällen, können die noch garnicht absehen. Natürlich wird kein Boxtrainer sie über das Punch-Drunk-Syndrom aufklären. Eltern werden ebenfalls nicht aufgeklärt. Ein Fall ist mir bekannt, da ich mit einer Exboxerin, die rechtzeitig das wahre Gesicht dieses Sports erkannt hat befreundet gewesen bin. Ihre Freundin ging in einem Kampf K.o., fiel für eine Woche ins Coma und ist seit dem ein völlig anderer Mensch geworden. Erst jetzt informierten sich ihre Eltern über das Punch-Drunk-Syndrom und machen sich heute schwerste Vorwürfe, daß sie ihrer Tochter das Boxen nicht vorher verboten hatten. Eine echte freiwillige Entscheidung kann ich erst treffen, wenn ich die Vor- und Nachteile der Entscheidung kenne. Der Boxanfänger, der im Kindes- oder Jugendalter anfängt ist dazu jedenfalls noch nicht alt genug. Und wenn er dann mal alt genug ist, ist es meistens schon zu spät. Einen Boxer, der äalter iszt, als 20 Jahre und als Kind schon angefangen hat, den holt man da nicht mehr raus. Daher liegt meines Erachtens die Notwendigkeit vor, den Menschen durch ein Boxverbot vor sich selber zu schützen. Diesen Schutz des Menschen vor sich selber gibt es bereits in anderen Bereichen. so ist es zum Beispiel verboten, ohne Gurt Auto zu fahren. Es ist nicht meine freie Entscheidung, mich anzuschnallen oder nicht, auch wenn ich "nur" mich selber gefährde, wenn ich ohne Gurt Auto fahre. Andererseits halte ich ein Boxverbot auch für drittschützend. Was ist denn, wenn ein langjähriger Boxer Teile seiner Konzentrationsfähigkeit verloren hat, und an einer roten Ampel jemanden hinten drauf fährt? Derjenige, der vorne stand ist nun plötzlich ebenfalls (wenn auch in geringerem Ausmaß) durch den Boxsport geschädigt, und dessen eigene Entscheidung war es nicht. Ebenfalls war es auch nicht die eigene freie Entscheidung eines Wachmannes, der von Mike Tyson verprügelt wurde, weil Tyson die Fähigkeit verloren hat, seine Agressionen zu kontrollieren. James Quarry brandiquarry3@msn.com Sun Dec 17 18:39:53 PST 2000 Mr. Reginald Delaney wrote a very long message on this web page, because he saw the name Stodimire, who had visited here. He was thinking this was a way to contact him. He has a very serious custody problem that is giving him a hard time. I called him and explained that we wish we could help him. However, this is out of our relm. I did tell him that we would leave one copy of his message here in hopes that some one would read it, that may be able to help him in his quest. PAUL MADUROS pama42@yahoo.com Sun Dec 17 17:09:31 PST 2000 Getting back to Jerry , I think if Hollywood ever made a movie about Jerry's life it might be better than Rocky 1. There's a big story here the all of the Quarry brothers were involved in boxing. I mean Jerry's career was like a rollercoaster ride , very exciting. I believe it was Jerry Lyn (Jerry's oldest son ) that I saw on 20/20 or something like that. To me he looks more like Jerry than anyone I've ever seen. They make movies all the time about things much less important. The money it made after cost's could be donated to the foundation. What is Hollywood waiting for! Reginald DeLaney reginalddelaney@aol.com Sun Dec 17 16:33:54 PST 2000 Subject: Fwd: If you could please enlighten us Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 18:06:15 EST From: ReginaldDeLaney@aol.com To: user18227@qwest.net Dear Mrs. Stoudamire, I appreciate your prompt reply and offer of support for my cause! I will be meeting with my people this weekend. We'll have a formal proposal for you soon. Your response was heartfelt. Especially your insight into Mr. Stoudamire's new child. This is the dilemma we live with in our society -- sometimes both parents can't be together full time for their child. Whatever legacy we as parents leave for our children has to be better than what so many of us are facing now. Rest assured the proposal submitted to you will be aimed at addressing the causes, not just another flashy band-aid. Please, if you see anything I can do to make this process smoother, or if you see anything I can be doing to make it easier for you, don't hesitate to speak out. My home telephone number is 503-771-7812 if you wish to use it. Sincerely, Reginald A. DeLaney James Quarry brandiquarry3@msn.com Sun Dec 17 14:59:36 PST 2000 Mr.Pierce, I hope you will always visit this page. I like your style. JP JPierce@aol.com Sun Dec 17 14:33:50 PST 2000 Preach it James, PREACH IT!!! Especially to those who like to "stir things up" (He he he) Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Sat Dec 16 19:53:54 PST 2000 In response to Mr. Steinhoff's post supporting the banning of boxing,I would like to say that he forgets an important factor, and that is personal choice. Jerry and Michael chose the profession they were in and they and others like them should have that choice. As far as the governing bodies are concerned, I hope they don't take it too far when the blood tests become readily available and ban people who test postive for the puglistic dementia gene or show other signs of possible future damage from boxing. I can't imagine the boxing world without great fighters like Jerry, Michael, and Riddick Bowe. As many of you may know, Bowe actually had a kidnapping sentence reduced when he kidnapped his family because the judge took into account that his behavior was affected by damage he suffered in the ring. PAUL MADUROS PAMA42@YAHOO.COM Sat Dec 16 18:04:12 PST 2000 We tend to blame individuals when something like what happened to Jerry & Michael. It is the system that broke down. Fighters getting knock in one city tonight fighting in another city next week. The way Boxing has been run since it started is a shame. If your not on top, people forget you very quickly. Most never make or even come close , their families are left to pick up the pieces. GOD BLESS THE QUARRY FAMILY James Quarry brandiquarry3@msn.com Fri Dec 15 18:46:32 PST 2000 Thanks Paul Drolet for translating and telling us what the German had to say. If the guy was more educated about what TJQF was all about, he would know that we are trying to force the governing bodies to make a mandatory blood test for people who get into contact sports. Especially kids. As far as banning boxing, no way. Boxing is the only sport left for the general public. Meaning, anyone can fight thier way out of the gutter and become a somebody. All other sports you for the most part have to go to college and be drafted. So for this reason alone, I hope boxing is never banned. As far as for Jerry's amature career, we have a few articles and still pictures. Some day we will post them. Remember Jerry is the only heavyweight in the history of amature boxing to win the Golden glove Title by knocking all five contestants out in three nights. Winning the Joe Lewis Trophy. JohnnyQ JohnQW@yahoo.com Fri Dec 15 11:34:21 PST 2000 I was wondering if there is a file of Jerry's amateure record. It was very impressive, from what I understand. Are there any photos of films from that period? Paul Maduros pama42@yahoo.com Wed Dec 13 18:55:46 PST 2000 I feel I must repond to the man that want's to ban Boxing. I feel that Boxing has let been letting down former boxers ever since it started. Who cares about theses people , I remember lots of times thinking how we as a caring society could let this happen! Phony promoters are the one's that end up rich and don't have to sweat for it. I don't want to mention names. Most of us know who they are. The answer though is NOT to ban boxing even though I'm angry about what happened to Jerry and Mike. God bless James Quarry! charles anderson ctjjandfam@aol.com Wed Dec 13 18:36:43 PST 2000 james, sorry about your dad. i know that he must have a great amount of pride in all of his sons. i will say this, and i know this will raise a few eyebrows in critics. if mickey mantle had a good set of wheels you could forget the rest! i feel strongley that if jerry's skin had not cut so easy you could say the same for him. enough said!!!! Paul Maduros pama42@yahoo.com Wed Dec 13 18:25:17 PST 2000 I think that I have responded to a lot of Jerry's critics on here before. Well here I go again. No one is putting down Floyd Patterson , but those knockdowns counted for a lot. It was the difference in the fight. I really don't believe that Floyd Patterson would have lasted as long with Frazier had they fought. Jerry had a much better chin , as far as Frazier being tougher than Jerry , I would say the difference was Frazier's endurance also the fact that Jerry would cut. I feel bad that Jerry never got rematches with Ellis and Chuvulo. I know and have dealt with James Quarry and he is NOT the type of person that is going to lie about his brothers career to try and hype them. Let's all pull together for this cause! James , I'm sorry to hear about your Father and Michael. You are in my thoughts and prayers. Paul Drolet drolpaul@aol.com Wed Dec 13 07:22:45 PST 2000 Whether or not we agree with him, here is the translation of Mr. Steinhoff's 1st post, dated December 1: "The idea of the Jerry Quarry Foundation doesn't seem half bad at first sight. However, it is currently unaware of the true nature of the problem and treats only its symptoms. It doesn't make sense to help boxers who have punch-drunk syndrome while the disease isn't being treated at the same time. The boxers the foundation supports are no longer active, just like kids are, and around 80% of youngsters who begin a boxing career will have to be treated by the Jerry Quary Foundation. The next logical step for TJQF is to follow Iceland's lead and ban boxing altogether. It is only if support and encouragement is accompanied simultaneously with the prohibion of boxing that the intelligent work of the Jerry Quarry Foundation will be seen as credible." James Quarry brandiquarry3@msn.com Tue Dec 12 21:30:03 PST 2000 Well Charles, our father is very proud of the foundation and the page. He has never really visited our page. However I have printed out everything for him, including all the letter page. He is not in good health. He has prostate cancer. he is handeling it well. He said when he dies he wants to be buried next to Jerry in Shafter, Calif. he now lives in Savage, Maryland. CHARLES ANDERSON CTJJANDFAM@AOL.COM Tue Dec 12 18:39:41 PST 2000 DEAR JAMES, I AGREE WITH YOU BUDDY,100%! WHAT IS YOUR DAD UP TO THESE DAYS AND HOW DOES HE FILL ABOUT THE FOUNDATION? Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Tue Dec 12 09:15:58 PST 2000 To those that are critical of Jerry Quarry's fighting ability you may wonder why some of us are sensitive when there is any negative feedback about Jerry's carrer. I mentioned in an earlier post that I had the pleasure to meet Jerry on a couple of occasions and although I didn't know him well, he seemed like a very fine gentleman to me. He didn't deserve the blow that fate dealt him! He gave his life to the sport he loved! About a year after I had spoken to Jerry I ran into him at a sporting event ( a basketball game or a fight card--I don't remember which). I didn't see him but he went out of his way to say hello to me. I heard a voice saying "Hi buddy, how are you?" I turned and saw that it was Jerry talking to me. We shook hands and although he didn't have the time to carry on a conversation, and I don't think he remembered my name, it made me feel special that someone I looked up to as a fan noticed me. Oh by the way, I just finished reading Joe Krause's review of the first Quarry/Patterson fight. I hope no one is too critical of the fact that Joe agreed with the judges and scored the fight a draw. Joe Krause sadmspats@yahoo.com Tue Dec 12 09:03:56 PST 2000 I have the second Patterson fight reviewed on the website. Both fights were good, although the first one is better I think. They were very evenly matched at this time and made for exciting fights. I would like to hear others that have the fights to see how they scored it. I think the judging in both contests was excellent. James Quarry brandiquarry3@msn.com Mon Dec 11 21:43:10 PST 2000 Only two men whippet Jerry Quarry in his prime. The first was Frazier. The second was Ali. Not counting the first Ali fight. That fight was stopped as you all know because of a cut. I said it then and I'll say it now. The cut was caused by an unintentional head butt. Had Jerry not been cut in that fight he would have won. Against Frazier. There is no excuse. A better man won that night. In the second fight with Ali. Ali was ready and he was in shape. Any man who stepped into the ring against Jerry Quarry knew he had better be in the best shape of his life. The fight with Norton was a mistake. Jerry took that fight at the end of his career with 10 days notice. Again on Patterson, Jerry said he was the dirtiest fight he had ever fought. Jerry had a cut on the back of his head that took seven stitches from a head butt. The tuffest man he ever fought was Frazier. That man beat Jerry at his own game. Jerry went out to prove who was the tuffest and Frazier proved that it was him. The fight with Chuvalo was a fluke. they were about to stop the fight for Jerry, Jerry claimed that the ref. stole the fight. Jerry had a broken back when he fought Ellis. that is no excuse. That has been documented. I have visited Joe Fraziers web page. AT no time, out of respect would I down grade him or any other fighter who steps into the ring. They are all warriors. The loss to Machen was because Jerry was just a kid. In talking about Jerry's loses on a given night, Jerry could have had beaten any of them. I know he could have kicked thier asses in a street fight. No one ever beat him in the street. James Quarry brandiquarry3@msn.com Mon Dec 11 21:05:26 PST 2000 Well Mr. Pierce, it seems that you like to stir up things on this page. We welcome what ever you have to say. As far as the first Patterson fight, there is some inside information that you have not heard. The ref. was John Thomas, a knock down was scored in the seventh round against Jerry. After viewing the tape, John Thomas stated that he cost Jerry the out right win that night. Because the knock down was not a knock down. Jerry through a left hook, in the middle of throughing the left hook Patterson land a punch to Jerry;s shoulder which cause Jerry to miss the punch and in doing so he lost his balance and went down. A knock down was scored for Patterson. With out that knock down, Patterson would have lost that first fight. So with out that draw he would have never made it into the WBA tournament. Sure both fight were close. However if a man goes down twice in one fight he usually loses. The scoring system in Calif. is on a 5 point scoreing. Jerry scored more points. Patterson may and I said may have won more rounds. There is no way that if Patterson showed up at any of Jerry's fights that he would have been embarassed. We tried to get a rematch with Patterson later. He declined. I will admit that the fight that Patterson was robbed is the fight with Jimmy Ellis. Patterson out fought Jimmy Ellis in every round and by points. That fight had only one judge and he was the ref. That fight was held in Canada. It does not matter what anyone says about Jerry. If Jerry was a big under dog, he won the fight. He only lost the ones who no one knew who was going to win. History proves that and no matter what is said. History can not be changed. Joe Krause sadmspats@yahoo.com Mon Dec 11 17:15:22 PST 2000 My analysis of Quarry-Patterson I is up on the website at geocities.com/sadmspats These two fights are tactical yet explosive gems. I will get to Patterson-Quarry II shortly. Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Mon Dec 11 09:02:27 PST 2000 I just found an interesting web site dedicated to heavyweight boxing. It is at http://boxing.heavyweights.co.uk/ They are having a hypothetical tournament pitting fighters from different eras (and sometimes the same era) against each other to determine an all time champion. Recent fights have included Micheal Dokes vs. Joe Bugner and Ezzard Charles vs. Earnie Shavers. Muhammed Ali has been matched with Bob Fitzsimmons and Sonny Liston is going up against John L. Sullivan. Jerry has Larry Holmes in the opening round. The tournament has just started. JP JPierce@aol.com Sun Dec 10 18:52:18 PST 2000 Just checked out Mr.Krouse's very interesting site. He has a new section which deals with close and contreversial decisions. Two of the fights involve Quarry vs Patterson. This isn't good news for Quarry fans. Many people claim that that Patterson was clearly robbed in the first fight. Some even say he won the 2nd as well. When asked why he didn't attend the Quarry/Foster fight Patterson responded "Many people though I won the fight with Quarry. I didn't want to embarrass him (New Yor Times, 1969)." What a decent person. Don't be too hard on Krouse when he exposes the truth. I sure won't. Have a good one. Joe Krause sadmspats@yahoo.com Sun Dec 10 18:18:18 PST 2000 The Mathis fight doesn't seem to exsist anymore. I have not been able to locate it anywhere and have been through many tape lists trying to find any fights I'm missing. If I come across I will be elated and will let you know. James Quarry boxerquarry@netscape.net Sun Dec 10 17:29:08 PST 2000 My thoughts on the second cd. Ron Lyle would be the first one. Jack Bodell would be the second one. The third If I can find it would be the Buster Mathis. So far I habe not been able to locate that one. If anyone has any information on the Mathis fight, I would appreciate it tremendously. Adam MacLean ______@______ Sun Dec 10 13:15:11 PST 2000 Dear James, Is there really to be a second CD Rom? Which of Jerry's matches are likey to appear on the second one I wonder? . . Sat Dec 9 01:15:59 PST 2000 . Bernd Steinhoff BSteinh299@aol.com Sat Dec 9 01:09:17 PST 2000 Mir ist eigentlich unklar, wie man das Boxen sicherer gestalten will. Es ist und bleibt das Ziel, den Gegner durch Schläge auf den Kopf kampfunfähig zu machen. Der Wettbewerb lautet eigentlich: "Wer schaft es, dem anderen die größere Hirnverletzung zuzufügen?" Und da mit jedem Kopftreffer einige tausend Gehirnzellen sterben, die dann unwiederbringlich verloren sind,liegt es eben in der Natur dieses Sportes, daß das punch-drunk-syndrom den Boxer ereilen wird. Und das sind nach Lundberg JAMA eben ca 75%-80% der Teilnehmer, die im Laufe der Jahre kopftrefferbedingte geistige Veränderungen von sich tragen. Wenn jemand sagt, we wolle das Boxen sicherer machen,dann kann er damit nur Kurzzeitverletzungen, die reversibel sind meinen, die er eindämmen will. Gegen das eigentliche Problem, nämlich das punch-drunk-syndrom hat man nur eine chance, wenn man das boxen verbietet. James Quarry jmqllq@earthink.net Thu Dec 7 21:04:16 PST 2000 I forgot. George Otto, the man responsible for getting TJQF involved with lobbying to get the U. S. Government to change to Laws for a safer boxing, has also writen an article telling us all about how we got involved and what we accomplished. The cover and back cover of the magazine will be just like the T-Shirts. James Quarry jmqllq@earthlink,net Thu Dec 7 20:55:54 PST 2000 For the last six months TJQF has been working on a complete marketing package to raise funds. The funds are for two things. One to contribute to the American Association of Boxing Commissioners Pension Fund for injured fighters. Two is to lobby this same organization and all the other contact sports authorities. To make mandatory to have this test performed. What we've come up with is a cd, which illustrates three of Jerry's greatest fights (There will eventually be two cd's, Jerry had more than three great fights) I don't believe there is another cd like it on the market any where. The special effects by Carl Weingarten, our web master are great. We have ordered T-Shirts, with the cartoon of the Bellflower Bomber on the front. Our TJQF home page picture will be on the front. The two videos are in the process of being professionally done with interviews. Also I just got back from Texas and a the TJQF magazine is almost ready to print. Even Joe Krouse wrote an article for us about Jerry's fight the one and only Mac Foster. Paul Drolet gave us a sample of the new up coming book writen about Jerry's life. I've read some of it and it's great. Bill O'Neil a sports writer from the past came out of retirement for TJQF. There will be lots of pictures also. This magazine will be given out for each purchase or donation to TJQF. Remember, this is all tax deductable. As I've said before, you can rest assured where the funds are going. So far I have already spent over $30,000 out of my own pocket for cause. Now it is time to start some serious fund raising activities. Golf tournaments are in the blue prints, as well as dinners. If we could just get some big named athletes to join in. I've been busy. I need your help. Spread the word!!! It all starts January 1, 2001 by the end of that month the marketing package will be ready!!! James Quarry jmqllq@earthink.net Thu Dec 7 20:31:14 PST 2000 I know what I'm about to tell all of the will be up setting. Mike is like where Jerry was in 1995. You all saw Jerry at the induction at the hall of fame. Mike's short turm memory is gone. He is starting to show things in his speach. My heart is breaking as I tell you this. If a family has to go through this, it should only have to do this once. We now know what blunt force trauma did to Jerry. We got educated. This makes it worse for us because we know what is in the future for Mike. I am very thankful that Mike has a wife, Ellen, that takes very good care of him and he sees the very best doctors. I just wish we would have known that all this was coming. This is why TJQF was formed. Just may be we can use these experiences to develope a warning system to determine if a person is or is susceptible to dementia via a gene. One of the problems there is that the major companies have already patented this proceedure even though it has not been perfected. So you have to pay them for each test. Even if it is not them performing it. The cost is great. We can't stop what is already happened in my family, however we can all join together to make a difference in the future for some other loved one or friend. Joe Krause sadmspats@yahoo.com Thu Dec 7 19:19:09 PST 2000 I actually know a little about the other divisions too. I thought Mike was doing well until running into the incredible Bob Foster hook. Interesting to see later in his career he beat Jose (King) Roman who fought George Foreman for the Heavyweight Title in Tokyo. I now think I have every fight for Jerry Quarry that is available to the public. I have heard the 2nd Brian London fight is available somewhere but have not been able to locate it. I also have not bought any fight after the Norton fight. Just thought about a fight that should have happened. Quarry vs Bonavena at The Garden. Talk about Fireworks!!! Paul Maduros pama42@yahoo.com Thu Dec 7 19:17:04 PST 2000 I don't know ever since this happened to Jerry and Mike I've looked at boxing in a new light. It's really life and death in the ring , anything can happen. Safeguards must be put into place. I know they have improved on these since the old days. Like 12rds instead of 15 , but even that is not near enough. Having said all that , it's nice to know in todays complex world that something as simple as a good left hook or right hand can still make you somebody. A poormans chance at fortune and fame. God bless James Quarry , he's showed how powerful love is. Peace Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Thu Dec 7 18:10:40 PST 2000 That's great that Robert is doing well. I am sure that a lot of people would like to know how Mike is doing these days. I hope everything is going well for him also. We haven't heard much about Mike lately. James Quarry boxerquarry@netscape.net Wed Dec 6 22:31:22 PST 2000 I'm so excited about the new CD. There is special effects, along with what it titled "The Three Great fight of Irich Jerry Quarry" The Bellflower Bomber. I should be ready for marketing some time in January 2001. The first Cd of it's kind. James Quarry boxerquarry@netscape.net Wed Dec 6 22:26:38 PST 2000 Robert is married and his wife is expecting to have a baby. His only problem is in his speach and that is because of a broken nose. Other than that he is fine. Thomas Landeral Sonic50@webtv.net Wed Dec 6 10:59:32 PST 2000 How is Robert doing? Saw him on the News for the jerry quarry induction into the hall of fame and he seemed to be a bit punch drunk himself. His speech seemed slurred too. How is his family taking it? His kids? went to school with him years ago. hope he is hanging around and doing okay. Paul Drolet drolpaul@aol.com Mon Dec 4 06:56:54 PST 2000 When it comes to German, I'm no Max Schmeling. Strictly a lightweight, and a poor one at that. But I believe the first sentence of Mr. Steinhoff's post roughly translates as follows: "At first glance, the Idea of the Jerry Quarry Foundation is not a bad idea." Beyond that, I'll have to throw in the towel. I'll see what I can do to have his letter translated, however, and let you all know. Season's greetings to all. Adam MacLean ********@******* Mon Dec 4 06:53:43 PST 2000 Last month, Angelo posted a message in which he mentioned the Earnie Shavers video. Anyone interested can buy it from Ringside.com http://www.ringside.com/store/prodinfo.asp?number=VT%2033&variation=&aitem=33&mitem=47 TREMAINE LEVECE@YAHOO.COM Sun Dec 3 13:19:36 PST 2000 OKAY,HOW LONG DID IT TAKE FOR YOU TO BE KNOWN AS A SERIOUS CONTENDER AND HOW LONG DID IT TAKE FOR YOU TO GET THE RESPECT YOU DESEVRE.PLUS,CAN YOU GIVE ME ANY INFO ON HOW TO GET IN A GOLDEN GLOVES TOURNEMENT.AND SO HOW LONG DID IT TAKE FOR YOU TO FIGHT YOUR FIRST FIGHT. Joe Krause sadmspats@yahoo.com Sun Dec 3 06:10:43 PST 2000 I would love to be able to speak another language, but then I realize I have enough trouble with English. James, nice job on the picture for the back of the TJQF Magazine. I liked the green trunks, those were always my favorite of the ones he wore. Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Fri Dec 1 19:34:19 PST 2000 Interesting post Mr. Steinhoff. I only wish that I could read German. The Jerry Quarry foundation is truly getting international! any translaters out there? James Quarry brandiquarry3@msn.com Fri Dec 1 19:29:36 PST 2000 I sure wish we could understand what Bernd Steinhoff said. At least we now know people from all over the globe are visiting our page and reading about our cause. Bernd Steinhoff BSteinh299@aol.com Fri Dec 1 11:13:48 PST 2000 Die Idee der Jerry Quarry Stiftung ist auf den ersten blick nicht schlecht. Allerdings ist das so, wie se derzeit läuft, nur ein herumdokrorn an den Symptomen. Was hat es für einen Sinn, Boxer, die ein punch-drunk-syndrom haben zu unterstützen, wenn nicht gleichzeitig gegen das punch-drunk-syndrom selber gekämpft wird. Da werden eben die boxer unterstützt und gleichzeitig untätig zugesehen, wie Kinder und Jugendliche eine Boxkarriere beginnen, und ca 80% davon in einigen Jahren selbst von der Jerry Quarry Stiftung unterstützt werden müßen. Die einzige logische Konsequenz für die Jerry Quarry Stiftuung wäre es, sich für ein Boxverbot nach isländischen Muster einzusetzen. Nur mit gleichzeitig flankierender Forderung nach einenm Boxverbot wird die gut gemeinte Arbeit der Jerry Quarry Stifung auch glaubwürdig. Kent Appel orionsonside@aol.com Fri Dec 1 08:53:03 PST 2000 Jerry Quarry beat the following fighters who at some point in their carrers were ranked in the top 10 in the world: Floyd Patterson (also a former world champ), Ron Lyle, Earnie Shavers, Buster Mathis, Mac Foster, Thad Spencer, Eduardo Corletti, Jack Bodell, Larry Middleton, Randy Neumann ( not of short people fame, I think I could beat the other Neumann), Larenzo Zanon, Alex Miteff, Brian London, Billy Daniels. The fighters he lost to included 4 current, former, or future world champions and two top 10 current, or former top 10 ranked fighters. The fighters he lost to had an average carrer record of 49 wins, 8 losses and 1 draw with an average of 36 knockouts. Jerry's record speaks for itself. A carrer to be proud of. Paul T.Maduros PAMA42@YAHOO.COM Thu Nov 30 18:20:33 PST 2000 With this site James Quarry has got the ball rolling for Boxers and other athletes. I'd like to thank all the people that visit this site for their support. I think that all people seem to remember you by is what you did when you were young. Well , we know what Jerry Quarry did. Jerry said that he never regretted his boxing career and that he loved boxing. I've seen a lot of people in my life , I've never seen anybody like Jerry Quarry. He was a true hero! Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Thu Nov 30 18:08:32 PST 2000 Interesting thing---I just ordered an Earnie Shavers video showing clips of many of his fights. For at least a couple of these fights, broadcast on CBS television, JERRY QUARRY was the announcer! He was teamed with Tom Brookshier and it was on the CBS Sports Specacular, which was their version of Wide World Of Sports. Jerry did a nice job! Man of many talents I guess! russ routeledge@yahoo.co.uk Thu Nov 30 15:44:34 PST 2000 jerry was a great boxer, who i always admired,when he beat favorites ron lyleand mac foster, he proved he was for real, what a warrior Joe Krause sadmspats@yahoo.com Sat Nov 25 11:06:37 PST 2000 I have a new address for my website! It's now www.geocities.com/sadmspats/ James if you could change the link on your site changed that would apprecaited. Still working on my Jerry Quarry vs Mac Foster fight column for Cyber Boxing Zone. I will let everyone know when it is finished. Sonia Hathaway(Quarry) SHath2163@aol.com Thu Nov 23 21:48:23 PST 2000 HAPPY THANKSGIVING ALL! Joe Krause sadmspats@yahoo.com Thu Nov 23 20:23:45 PST 2000 My website was just closed up by homepage.com because they no longer host web pages. I will be looking for a new address in the near future. The old website address is down for good I believe. Thanks to all that visited and hopefully the new site will be up soon. Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Wed Nov 22 19:24:04 PST 2000 HAPPY THANKSGIVING TO THE QUARRY FAMILY AND TO ALL OF THE PEOPLE WHO VISIT THIS SITE. Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Tue Nov 21 17:18:27 PST 2000 Well, unfortunately, the race topic will always be intertwined with athletics, society and especially Heavyweight boxing...i.e. "Great White Hope." It's something that people just won't leave alone. Believe me, when these guys are in the ring, the last thing they're worried about is race. It's survival at that point. I really doubt Jerry Quarry, Duane Bobick or Gerry Cooney went out there to represent white America. They were just boxers trying to make a living and trying to win the title. The fact that they were white fascinated the media and fans far more than it mattered to the boxers or their opponents. Interestingly though, Jerry came up in the 60's and early 70's---a time that will never be repeated---in that there were so many different movements going on at the same time---civil rights protests, black pride peaking, America being introduced to ideas/concepts and religions that they had never been exposed to. Naturally, a proud Champion like Ali was a source of inspiration to millions of people worldwide of all colors--- but in America, certainly African Americans were uplifted by Ali's outspoken stand on race relations, the war, etc. Jerry was involuntarily caught up in it too---and as far as I can tell, did a fantastic job of keeping the focus on his boxing ambitions more so than making a race issue out of it. I think we are all lucky to have witnessed the greatest heavyweight ever, Ali, along with so many talented fighters in the same era---Frazier, Foreman, Quarry, Ellis, Norton---and finally the man of the 80's, Larry Holmes. Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Tue Nov 21 15:14:21 PST 2000 I meant to say at the end of my last post. LET'S DROP THE RACE TOPIC ONCE AND FOR ALL. IT ISN'T NEEDED HERE. There was a typo. Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Tue Nov 21 13:29:15 PST 2000 Yes, it's easy for fans to ridicule athletes because of a poor performance. But I'm with Kent on this one: Lacing up the gloves and going out to fight another boxer in front of a crowd is an experience few of us will ever know. It takes more guts than most of us have. And I remember Bobick facing the cameras and crowd after losing to Tate. The crowd still cheered him. He was through as a contender---but did the interview like a man. By the way, I didn't know he beat Weaver. Does anyone have the details of that fight? I always liked Weaver. Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Mon Nov 20 23:55:59 PST 2000 Hey at least Duane Bobick had enough guts to get in the ring win or lose. So what if he got knocked out in the first round by Norton and Tate. He is not the only one to get knocked out quickly. As we know, Norton himself was destroyed by Foreman, Shavers, and yes, Cooney. I still am a big fan of Kenny and I think he was a great fighter ( not just a good fighter). I also think that Mac Foster was a good quality heavyweight. 29 wins and 4 losses all 29 wins by knockout and he went the distance with the great Muhammed Ali. I don't look at a fighter's color when I root for someone. I admire something more important,his spirit. LET'S DROP THE RACE TOPIC ONCE AND FOR ALL!! IT ISN'T NEED HERE!! JP JPierce@aol.com Mon Nov 20 22:38:51 PST 2000 BOBICK A TOP BOXER A HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!! YOU JUST WROTE THAT ON PURPOSE TO START SOMETHING. BOBICK THE GREAT WHITE JOKE. Last great heavyweight was quarry indeed. Please don't bother to mention Gerry Cooney. That won't help the situation. Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Mon Nov 20 20:11:04 PST 2000 I've even gotten e-mail from England and other parts of the world after people have visited the site and read comments. The site is a great forum serving an important purpose. Jerry lives on! James Quarry boxerquarry@netscape.net Mon Nov 20 17:44:35 PST 2000 Considering all the different fighters that are now being talked about, Jerry would have been proud of all this and would be joining in on all this talk. What a great country we live in. What a great time to be living in. We can sit in our houses and have a conversation with anyone from all over the world. As usual we do not always agree. Just think how boring it would be if we all agreed. I want to personally thank each and every one of you for visiting this web page. Great things are planned even still. I say even still because of one man. George Otto was the one person responbible for getting involved with getting some Laws changed for the safety of all fighters. Next year will be an exciting year for tjqf. We have started a fund, to contribute to, The Association of Boxing Commissioners Pension Fund for fighters. Thanks to George Otto, TJQF was there to contribute to the ititial formation of this historic pension fund. This fund was one of our golds. This fund will give TJQF the freedom to focus on raising funds for the fighter, and have time left to develope a warning system for our kids getting involved with contact sports. Please keep coming and expressing yourselves. This way Jerry will allways be with us. I can hear him now, saying, "I took the Norton fight with only 10 days notice" Joe Krause sadmspats@yahoo.com Mon Nov 20 16:30:50 PST 2000 Bobick is working on recovery, I've heard. That was about 6 months ago I believe. I am working on posting my analysis on some more fights with complete scoring. Fights that will be analyzed will be- Clay Vs Jones, Ali vs Mildenberger, Quarry vs Patterson I and II, Norton vs Young, Foreman vs Young, Quarry vs Chuvalo, Quarry vs Foster, Frazier vs Chuvalo, Frazier vs Bonavena I, Norton vs Garcia II, Quarry vs Spencer, Frazier vs Bugner. I will post shortly on some other topics I would like to discuss, God Bless. Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Mon Nov 20 15:34:51 PST 2000 Kent: Yes, in the Olymipics, Bobick was knocked out by Teofilo Stevenson of Cuba. But as an amateur, that type of thing happens---Bobick was able to put together an impressive undefeated record (though he looked sloppy in some of the wins). When he met Ken Norton, things unraveled. If only he could have fought through 5 or 6 rounds before getting knocked out---this was a nationally televised fight with a lot of build up. Getting knocked out in 58 seconds without landing any punches really took the steam out of his career and damaged his reputation---hurt his credibility as a contender. Then, he did put together a string of wins before his big comeback fight against John Tate. Again, he was knocked out in the first round. I'm not sure who those other losses were against. I heard terrible news about Bobick about a year or so ago. Apparently, he was working in some machine shop/factory and his hands were badly injured in some sort of mishap. I didn't get details but it really seemed like serious hand injuries---hopefully he was able to recover. If anyone has an update they should post it. Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Sun Nov 19 22:56:54 PST 2000 I believe I only wrote "you are missing the point" once and that was to point out what this site is about, pugilistic dementia. I do enjoy the dicussions on boxing even if we do disagree sometimes. As long as it doesn't go back to the petty name calling. Oh by the way, my name is Kent Appel (pronounced A-PELL, not apple). Paul is right. Anyone that steps into the ring has a lot of courage and they are not a bum. To change the subject, I am going out on a limb a little bit, and maybe I will get some disagreement, but I do think that Duane Bobick was a good fighter. Bobick was a big strong heavyweight who was a big puncher. He beat such fighters such as Mike Weaver, Chuck Wepner, and Scott LeDoux and he also defeated a host of other journeyman fighters that a lot of the other champions and contenders also beat. His big problem as a fighter was that he couldn't take a punch and he had the sense enough to get out of the game intact. Duane Bobick had a carrer record of 49 wins and 4 losses with 42 knockouts. He would have always had a puncher's chance of defeating anyone. That is if he didn't get hit and hurt first. Paul Maduros PMAD12@MAILEXCITE.COM Sun Nov 19 18:49:20 PST 2000 Whether its Buster Mathis or Ken Norton all fighters or anyone who's got gut's enough to get in the ring with Ali or Frazier is no bum. Lets all please remember what this site's about. I'd like for someone to help come up with some ideas about helping this foundation. That's what it's about! Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Sun Nov 19 17:48:34 PST 2000 Age isn't the only barometer of a fighter being in "his prime." Some fighters peak when they're older. Norton didn't START fighting professionally until he was older than most. Tyson is still a relatively young man, but has been fighting pro since he was a teenager. Quarry was very young when he was already taking on the best fighters in the division. By the time he fought Norton, he just didn't have it anymore. AND he wasn't trained for the fight either. Is that an excuse? Of course not. Kenny Norton came to fight, came in shape (he always LOOKED in shape!) and dominated the fight. Norton looked terrific in that fight. The point is, you can be punched out when you're 33, or you can be peaking when you're 33. Depends on the circumstances of the career and how many fights you've been in...and who the competition has been. As for Jimmy Ellis, I really doubt most boxing experts would say he was a "journeyman" when he fought Quarry. Late in Ellis' career, he lost more than he won but actually still looked competetive in the second Frazier fight. Ellis had above average speed and boxing skills. He'd be a top five fighter today no doubt. He was cursed to fight in an era of very strong heavyweights. JP JPierce@aol.com Sun Nov 19 17:36:36 PST 2000 Major error. "I'm not mad". Not "I never claimed to not be mad." I was in the process of writting another sentance lost my train of thought and forgot to correct it. Next time I'll put more effort in reviewing my messages befor posting them. Sometimes I get impatient and want to send my message out as fast as possible. Wish I could argue my points as well as some other (Krouse and DKS). Again I'm not at all mad. We all have our opinions. I believe that Norton was a great and deserves his due. But he wasn't "the greatest" either. Norton was one of the best overall athletes around. He could've done football like his son future hall of famer Ken Norton Jr. (San Francisco 49ers) Quarry was also a great fighter. This is a fact. He was no "white hype" like today's European fighters. He was for real. JP JPierce@aol.com Sun Nov 19 17:23:58 PST 2000 Dear God Angelo, How deceitful you're being. Like Kent Apple always writes, You're missing the point. OBVIOUSLY ALI/HOLMES IS AN EXAMPLE AN OUT OF PRIME ALI. Ali was washed up. He should never have taken that fight. Same with Holmes vs Tyson. That's not what I'm talking about!!! What I'm talking about are fights like Quarry/Ali Quarry/Frazier 2 even Quarry/Norton. I Hate when people write that these were "past his prime" fights. Heck he's younger than Ali and Frazier so its' redundant to state this. He was the same age as Norton. THERE'S A HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FOREMAN VS HOLYFIELD AND FOREMAN VS ALI AND YOUNG HE LOST TO ALI AND YOUNG IN HIS PRIME BUT LOST TO HOLYFIELD WHEN PAST HIS PRIME. GOT IT!!! DON'T TWIST MY MEANING. What would piss me off is if you were to write that Foreman lost to Young after his prime. Formeman was only 28 so that's bs. Many people do this. There was even 1 individual who claimed all the losses were because he was past his prime and all the wins were during his prime. When the boxer lost the writter put he was not in his prime. The very next match the boxer won the writter put "He was back in his prime again". THIS IS NO LIE IT REALLY DID HAPPEN! How do I know. It was another Norton fan that's how. He wrote that Norton's prime ended in 1973 and he regained it in 1976 nly to lose it again in 77. Obviously this nut was trying to dodge the Foreman beating then get back to the Norton unnofficial victory (Ali) then back to the 19777 loss to Shavers. Even I think this is a silly method. Norton was in his prime when he lost to Foreman. THAT'S WHAT I'M GETTING AT. ALL I'M SAYING IS DON'T ABUSE THE TERM. FOSTERS BEST FIGHT WAS AGAINST ALI. Foster himself admitted it. He claimed he put everything he had into it (New York Times April 2nd). I never claimed I'm not mad. I just find you guys not impartial. Mathis was a bum plain and simple. If he's a bum against Ali,Frazier and others then he's a bum against Quarry. Unless you're willing to admit that Quarry was indeed not that "great". That's all I'm trying to point out. If it were Quarry who faught Jose Louis Garcia, Charlie Reno or Henry Clark would you ever hype them up. You'd make a tape called "Quarry vs the best in the division" or "Tournament of The Next Great Fighters". meaning that whoever won that fight would've been great. Quarry just won it. At least I can admit that they were journeymen plain and simple. I judge Quarry and other fighters more against other greats. He did indeed have 2 great fights. Against Shavers and Lyle. Those were his most impressive victories in my opinion. Especially considering that it came after his 2nd loss to Ali tragic loss to Jimmy Ellis (another Joe Krouse hyped up journeyman). The only one who gets mad around hear is you Paul. Just look at your actions in the past. Someone from another site even repremends you. It doesn't bother me how people feel about Norton. This is a Quarry site and I expect this. I don't in any way react negatively when people disagree with the status of my favorite fighter like others (ie.DKS) do. BTW I've already admitted in the past that Quarry probably was out of shape when he faught Norton. A Quarry/Norton fight at their best would've been a clasic IMO. Paul Maduros pmad12@mailexcite.com Sun Nov 19 13:54:01 PST 2000 Yes , Jerry had some trouble coming up against journeymen so did Joe Frazier vs Bonavena also Ali vs Doug Jones. A fight some people think he lost. Mac Foster was no bum , he went 15 rounds with Ali and knocked out Thad Spencer in 1 rd! I think that we can disagree on this board without anyone getting mad. Norton was a very good fighter no one can say otherwise. Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Sun Nov 19 11:19:39 PST 2000 But it IS true that sometimes fighters meet when one's best years are behind them. This IS a legitimate way of reasoning. A 39 year old Ali was no match for Larry Holmes at his peak. JP, even YOU must agree that this would have been a different fight if a time machine could have made Ali 32 years old again. This isn't to take away from Holmes by any means---he beat the old Ali convincingly and somehow with respect! But the fact remains that fighting "past the prime years" is not an indicator of how a great fighter would have done when he was younger. As for out of shape blobs, Leroy Jones was a guy who looked terribly out of shape but was actually a good fighter. I believe his only loss was to Larry Holmes (the greatest fighter of his era). Jones beat Mike Weaver and was interesting to watch. Even against the defensive minded Holmes, Jones was able to double and triple up on jabs early in the fight before his eyes were jabbed shut. I never really saw Buster Mathis fight, but your points are well taken. Interesting too that styles make fighters and styles make fights. George Foreman LOVED fighting shorter opponents like Frazier---Mike Tyson seemed to do well against tall men until he ran into Douglass. Tyson-Lewis could be a great fight if Tyson's heart/mind is in it. We all saw that Tyson still hits like he has cement in his gloves (againt Golata). I think if he lands a few of these to Lennox jaw, you might be surprised to see how fast this could be over. JP JPierce@aol.com Sun Nov 19 09:03:13 PST 2000 Okay Okay, Norton sucks and Quarry rules...HAPPY! Sheeesh! I disagree with Angelo`s statement regarding Frazier fan. Fan was simply stating that there were no need for fighting on his board. If Paul was indeed a part of this than he needed to be addressed like anyone else. Paul, read carefully what Angelo was writting. Buster Mathis was a fat out of shape slob long before he ever faught Quarry. From the moment he hit the pro division he ws exposed as an obese fraud. Please do not use him as an example of Quarry`s feats of beating bigger men. That`s an awful example. There`s a huge diff between Lewis, Grant and other big guys of today and that out of shape slob. They are big men of "muscle". Even Tua believe it or not. Most Samoans (including women) are big shaped but still athletic. Once Mathis left the amateurs where he got away with running for 3 rounds he was exposed as a journeyman in the pro's. Ali and Frazier had an easier time with him than Quarry. Mathis was in better shape against frazier than he was with Quarry. He was at his worst with Ali. By then Mathis's obesity was getting out of control. Quarry fans and Joe Krouse have a bad habit of hyping up journeymen (like Mac Foster). That`s my major criticism. They do this to make Quarry look like a legend. I think this is wrong. Fact is Quarry did have trouble with some journeyman. Alongi for instance. Also you have to stop being deceitful with the "prime" concept. Boxers do lose in their primes you know. Stop jumping around and avoiding this by stating that he only lost because he was past his prime. If so then he`d be the youngest since he lost to Machen when he was very young. sean thebullrun@cs.com Sat Nov 18 20:49:37 PST 2000 kent . with out a doubt in my mind i believe kenny was a good fighter, and yes i thought he beat ali in the third fight, my only, and most biggest gripe with kenny was with the exception of ali, and young excluding the quarry fight who did he beat, like i said there were many great fighters doing round robbins, kenny was not involved, he could have fought the best around and he didnt, but like you said he had a tough style to fight and he was a good fighter, just not the big wins on his record. also i do agree , he would have beat spinks. Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Sat Nov 18 17:24:26 PST 2000 In order for Mike Tyson to defeat Lennox Lewis he has to move in behind multiple left jabs and he needs to use a lot of side to side movement. He also needs to throw combinations to the body and the head. Tyson cannot just throw one punch at a time and spend his time wrestling with Lewis. These are some bad habits that he has picked up over the years and they won't work against Lewis. I believe that Mike Tyson has the tools to defeat Lewis if he just uses them. Paul Maduros PMAD12@MAILEXCITE.COM Sat Nov 18 15:39:31 PST 2000 Not to put down Buster Mathis but I question his conditioning. Now a days you have guys 220 to 250 all muscle. I know what your saying about Tyson , I'd like to think he could beat Lewis , but he's not the late 80" Tyson. Reguardless it would be a good fight. PAUL MADUROS PMAD12@MAILEXCITE.COM Sat Nov 18 14:06:14 PST 2000 To his credit , Jerry did do well against big men. Buster Mathis , Ron Lyle , and Jerry knocked out some guy 6'4 to win the national golden gloves title in 1964. Not only that I read that Gil Clancy said Jerry use to handle big guys in the gym quite well. As for Mike Tyson vs Lennox Lewis , I will go with Lewis. I base this on the huge reach advantage of Lewis. Certainly though Mike Tyson has a great punch and could win. Sabrina Quarry-Porter SabrinaLPorter@aol.com Sat Nov 18 06:19:41 PST 2000 in response to Angelo's comment about mike tyson and lennox lewis, i think that would be a great fight that would probably go the distance.but i think in the end lennox lewis would win that one. Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Sat Nov 18 04:45:30 PST 2000 Paul: But even back then you had giants like Buster Mathis and he didn't beat the great heavyweights of his era. In fact, I'd say that a well conditioned and motivated Mike Tyson (5'10") will knock out "Giant" Lennox Lewis if he trains for the fight. PAUL MADUROS PMAD12@MAILEXCITE.COM Fri Nov 17 19:01:21 PST 2000 As I look back at the past , I kind of like the fact heavyweights back when Jerry was fighting were more normal size people. Now a days in all sports it's like the land of the giants. You see athletes that are so much bigger. Man I don't think it will ever stop. You make Jerry Quarry 6'5 240lbs with his skill , you got Jerry Quarry world champ! You can't go back to those Heavyweight Golden days without seeing Jerry. I know one thing I visit often. We love you Jerry! Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Fri Nov 17 16:34:45 PST 2000 Kent/Everyone: I think Kenny Norton in his prime against Jerry in his prime would have been quite an interesting fight. If Jerry wasn't stopped on cuts, I think he could defeat Norton (again, a younger Quarry vs. a younger Norton) either by TKO or close decision. I believe Jimmy Young should have been awarded the decision against Norton. Norton was a good quality heavyweight who people put in the "great" category simply because he defeated Ali once and fought him close two other times. By the way, for the record, the 1976 Yankee Stadium Norton/Ali fight WAS close, but I don't think Norton did enough to take the title from a champion. I would have scored it for Ali---or at best, a draw. Speaking of which, Ernie Shavers hit Ali with punches that were so devestating, you could hear the thuds over the crowd noise. In several rounds, it was like Ali was being hit with a sledgehammer. He not only survived the punches during that fight, he also managed to collect himself and clown around with the crowd by making faces and wiggling his hips. This went on for 15 rounds. By contrast, one minute into the fight, Norton got hit with a lesser blow from Shavers and couldn't survive the first round. This speaks about heart more than anything else. Norton was a good, solid fighter but not a "great." I think he was/is an intelligent guy who had other options such as acting and broadcasting---this might have taken some of his fighting chops away. Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Thu Nov 16 21:24:16 PST 2000 Sean, I disagree with what you said about Ken Norton not belonging in the hall of fame. Ken Norton was a great fighter. He had good power in both hands, an excellent left jab, better than average hand speed and an ackward style that was hard to figure out. Some people say that Ken never won his title in the ring but he did defeat Jimmy Young in the title elimination bout and I do believe he could have easily defeated Leon Spinks for the title. Also, many people think that he was robbed in the third Ali fight. I believe that prime againsnt prime versus Jerry Quarry would have been a toss up. Jerry's advantage agaisnt some of the bigger fighters he defeated (Lyle, Shavers, Foster, Spencer) was his hand speed. Against Norton, Jerry would not have that much of an advantage. People forget that if Norton didn't have fast hands, then there is no way he could have competed with Ali the way he did. Most of the fighters Jerry lost to had better than average hand speed. If Jerry belongs in the hall of fame ( and he does), then so does Ken Norton. Joe Krause sadmspats@yahoo.com Thu Nov 16 15:22:41 PST 2000 Slade, that is why I started my website at Heavyweights.homepage.com I now have over 250 records of heavyweights from this period. It has almost every opponent Jerry faced in his whole career in the records database. All the Scrapiron Johnson and Mac Foster fans can go and see the records. I also am starting a weekly column on a particualr fighter or fight. This month I will be focusing on forgotten Canadian Champion Bob Cleroux who beat Chuvalo 2 out of 3 fights. I never really knew the quality of some of the opposition for the legends until researching their records as well. I also eventually will have a top 100 from the late 50's to early 80's time period. I am at about 20 now so that will take a while. Next month I will be focusing on a great fight involving Jerry, stay tuned! Slade sladek@netcnct.net Thu Nov 16 03:28:46 PST 2000 It's nice to visit TJQF after being away for so long (literally)... Jerry, Joe, Mohamad, Kenny, George, Ron, Earnie, Larry, and Scrapiron were brilliant athletes (OK, George "Scrapiron" Johnson was in a lower tier of brilliance - remember him? more on him shortly...). It would be hard for me to ever describe one of these fighters or their challengers as "average". They were all great. Some won more than others. Think for a second and put your feet in the shoes of a champion or a top contender - can you imagine the physical and mental preporation you would have to endure in training for an upcoming fight? WOW! Take a look at some photo's from the J.Quarry-M.Foster fight - two superb athletes duking it out on a live telecast. In a way, it's too bad one had to loose and one win - but I guess that's what it's all about. At any rate, lets get back to Scrapiron and the likes. If you look at the list of names that Jerry and the other great fighters of the 60's and 70's fought, you'll find a trend of similar names. For example, you'll find that Jerry, Joe, & George Foreman all fight George "Scrapiron" Johnson. Other names like James Woody, Stamford Harris, Tony Doyle, Al Jones, Charley Polite and many others appear commonly. By putting their gloves on and giving there best effort, these "Other" guys made the "Great" ones great. Without them, there would be no Joe Frazier or Jerry Quarry (from a boxing image point of view of course). It sounds crazy, but in a way, it's too bad there's not a Hall-of-Fame category for these other fellas. Well that's my two cents for now - hope I'm not taken away on business again for another 12 months - I enjoy your site! sean TheBullRun@cs.com Wed Nov 15 21:35:32 PST 2000 hello i am going to write something that is just opinion from a very knowledgable fight fan . i am a very big jerry quarry fan , but i will write in a non partial way. lets start with jerry matching up with muhammad ali, like i said i am a very big jerry quarry, but jerry couldnt beat muhammad plane and simple, styles make fights and jerry was a counter puncher at best and the bottom line is i dont think any heavyweight in history is going to countet ali and win, and as far as jerry pressing and winning chances are not likely, for many reasons. 1 of the big reasons was jerry's so so conditioning, cut problems and ali's great heart and chin. second lets get the great joe fraizier debate out of the way. could jerry beat frazier. yes, but he would have to turn in a great performance, maybe his best by boxing the way he did against lyle and thad spencer. ther are many story's of jerry and joe sparring in cal. and jerry got the better of the session by boxing. bottom line is if jerry's skin holds up, and he is at his peak in great shape and boxes his ass off he can win, but the age old question is does jerry get hit a great shot and get his irish up and decide to go to war, in a war he would always lose against frazier. third the ken norton debacle. let me set the record straight ken norton was not a great fighter and does not belong in the hall of fame, before every one goes haywire thats a norton fan hear me out and doe your research and watch the tapes. i pose a couple of questions with great facts to back up the talk. name a great fighter norton beat with the exception of ali, you cant becouse he didnt beat one, the division at the time was packed with great talent instead kenny chose to fight such fighter as jose luis garcia twice in which he got ko'd on one of them fights, boone kirkman who wasnt much at all in his time and by the time norton, got to him he was way past his prime, ron stander another guy with not too much in his prime was well past it when norton did him in, duane bobick a never was. thse fighters where a far cry of who he could have fought frazier, lyle, bonavena and so on. lets look at his biggest win with the exception of ali , jimmy young a hot and cold fighter with very good boxing ability and no punch at all .lets now take a look at losses and close calls. george foreman killed norton who looked so scared before this fight he lost in the dressing room, ernie shavers, yes norton was old but shavers was way older and he destroyed norton, gerry cooney again norton past his prime maybe in with the best cooney that ever set in the ring, norton destroyed in one, scott ledoux norton gets the draw in wich most observers thought ledoux won including me. yes norton fought great against ali and holmes but he could have fought the best around instead he fought the second teir of a good division. yes he beat jerry and no i cant take that away from hime but lets point out the obvious. jerry was atleast three years removed from his prime, out of shape and at this point skin you could breath on and he would cut. jerry in his prime fought the better fighters, beat better fighters. jerry in his prime was a little to much of a punchers for kenny with a better chin, he would have stopped norton prob. around the 6 th. ok sorry for letting this drag on. jerry was a great fighter who had some tough breaks and some of the bad breaks he caused himself along the way by not being the best he could be, but overall this was a fighters fighter who could box and punch with the best of them and he had just as big a heart if not begger than many others. jerry quarry was a great fighter, no he didnt win the title but he gave it his all and came close to it.jerry quarry will live through people like me and all his fans forever becouse the only time people truly die is when they are forgotten about and as long as i live and the great fans of this page live jerry quarry will live forever. thank you very much for your time i hope you enjoyed. JGaetano Elwill7847 Sat Nov 11 14:34:30 PST 2000 I was very disappointed to come in the site after being out for awhile and find that there was quite a bit of arguing and bashing going on.The reason for this site is to bring attention to pugilistic dementia and honor the memory of Jerry Quarry...NOTHING ELSE! Growing up Jerry was my favorite fighter and as a kid I thought he was the best. History reflects that he was an excellent and great, yes great,fighter who had the misfortune of being in the same era as Ali and Frazier. But, now that I am older and wiser, I recognize Jerry for something more than his fighting skills:his great heart and character. So let's honor this site and jerry's memory with dignity and respect. Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Wed Nov 8 19:20:52 PST 2000 Interesting...and ironic...to make such a big point about not using the forum to vent anger and frustration...but then USING the forum to vent anger and frustration! Let's just all take a step back, catch our breath, relax and regroup. We all know what this site is for. We also all enjoy using the message board to discuss fond memories of boxing. I for one enjoy reading other peoples' views and opinions---even if they don't agree with mine. Let's just all respect eachother and share our interest in boxing and our wishes to make the sport safer. Paul Maduros PMAD12@MAILEXCITE.COM Wed Nov 8 15:38:24 PST 2000 It was not my intention to start something , but I found it hard to take when some people talk bad about Joe. I wiil from now on ignore these people just like I should have to begin with. You don'r have to worry Frazier fan I will never visit again. Frazier Fan Webmaster@joefraziergym.com Wed Nov 8 10:26:33 PST 2000 Dear Quarry Foundation, When I invited you over to the Frazier site I did so with the intentions of sharing a common interest NOT as a forum to vent our anger and frustrations on. I'm directing this specifically at Paul Maduras. Though I have no idea who he is (or any one else for that matter) I'm sure he's a decent person. However I urge Maduros not to use the forum to start conflict with people. I'm sure Mr.James Quarry would agree to that. If this persist I may ask the webmaster to ban certain individuals from returning. Though I do not want it to come to this. When I came here I noticed that there's been some conflict here in the past as well. One particular individual (DKS) seems to be an ongoing issue. With all due respect if Paul, DKS and any other individual have problems please do not use the forum to resolve them. Contact one another personally or at least contact the webmasters (either Quarry Foundation or Frazier). But please do not use the forum for such a task. Paul I'm not sure why you wrote your post but after seeing it I found it provocative. You should not have attacked Ali. There's been so much tention because of this and it's sad that you would write that. Especially now. When things were just about to cool down. That DKS character can be very annoying but to his credit he was on the verge of cooling down and resolving the Frazier-Ali fiasco. Then you wrote that post and set him off again. He'll also be contacted and made to cool down so don't think I'm picking on you. I singled you out because Kent Apple had promissed that the Foundation didn't have an agenda against Ali. That they respected all fighters. That seems to be contradicted by Paul's untimely post. Again if there's any problems you have with a particular post or individual please let our webmaster know but DO NOT use the forum to counter-attack. Thank you. Hopefully we can unite to return the memory of all the past great heavyweights (Quarry,Frazier, Ali etc.) and unite to make boxing a safer sport for all REGARDLESS OF RACE, COLOUR OR CREED!!! PS:If you do intend to return (Paul) please "weigh" your words carefully. There are no "black" racists (or any racists) on the Frazier site. Just people with opinions (some strong but still). The wrong use of words can be very costly indeed. James Quarry brandiquarry3@msn.com Sat Nov 4 09:53:21 PST 2000 UP-DATE; In January 2001 TJQF will have a marketing package together. It will include a T Shirt, CD, Magazine, and Video Tape along with a Quarterly News Letter. Purchasing thisnew package will automatically put your name on the list as a member of TJQF. This has been a long time in the making. We could not have done this with out our Webmaster, Carl Weingarten. From time to time we will have some auctions for memrobillia. PAUL MADUROS PMAD12@MAILEXCITE.COM Wed Nov 1 17:26:03 PST 2000 Kent is right , we must not lose focus on what this site's about. With the holidays coming up I hope that many of the people that visit this site will find it in their hearts to make a donation. Boxers must be protected from themselves , it's got to be harder to get licensed once you reach a certain age and had many fights. I know that most of us are always talking about Jerry , because he was involved in great many big fights. We should not lose sight of the fact that James has 2 more brothers Michael and Bobby who must not be forgotten. God Bless Sonia Hathaway(Quarry) SHath2163@aol.com Tue Oct 31 09:00:36 PST 2000 HAPPY HALLOWEEN TO ONE AND ALL. Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Mon Oct 30 15:31:32 PST 2000 Kent: Yes, it's true that discussing the top ten isn't the primary objective of this site. You make a good point. But I think it's a positive thing that people are visiting and posting messages here, even if they aren't all about Pugilistic Dementia. The message board is getting people to come back and visit often---and while they're here, hopefully they'll pick up some information about what James and the Quarry family are doing to try to protect victims of head trauma in contact sports. I also think you made good points about Floyd Patterson in your last post. And I'm glad to see that you gave Larry Holmes his just due. Holmes was clearly the best Heavyweight of his era and just had the misfortune to immediately follow the best Heavyweight of ANY era, Muhammad Ali. Holmes not only defended his title often, and against all contenders (AND on network TV!), but he also conducted himself admirably outside of boxing. He seemed to be a family man with business interests in his home town----he stayed in Easton, PA and gave back to his community. Also, it's interesting to note that Holmes, who fought at the Scranton Pennsylvania Catholic Youth Center several times early in his career, staged a title fight there late in his championship reign. This brought lots of money into the local economy there and major media attention. Holmes said that "These people supported me when I had nothing---it might have been a long time ago, but when people are kind to me, I have an obligation to return the favor---now that I'm in a position to give something back, I will." I wonder if any of the current champions think that way? J Pierce JPierce@aol.com Mon Oct 30 07:30:07 PST 2000 Grrrrrrrrrrr Grumble Grumble. Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Mon Oct 30 05:10:30 PST 2000 Kent: Yes, it's true that discussing the top ten isn't the primary objective of this site. You make a good point. But I think it's a positive thing that people are visiting and posting messages here, even if they aren't all about Pugilistic Dementia. The message board is getting people to come back and visit often---and while they're here, hopefully they'll pick up some information about what James and the Quarry family are doing to try to protect victims of head trauma in contact sports. I also think you made good points about Floyd Patterson in your last post. And I'm glad to see that you gave Larry Holmes his just due. Holmes was clearly the best Heavyweight of his era and just had the misfortune to immediately follow the best Heavyweight of ANY era, Muhammad Ali. Holmes not only defended his title often, and against all contenders (AND on network TV!), but he also conducted himself admirably outside of boxing. He seemed to be a family man with business interests in his home town----he stayed in Easton, PA and gave back to his community. Also, it's interesting to note that Holmes, who fought at the Scranton Pennsylvania Catholic Youth Center several times early in his career, staged a title fight there late in his championship reign. This brought lots of money into the local economy there and major media attention. Holmes said that "These people supported me when I had nothing---it might have been a long time ago, but when people are kind to me, I have an obligation to return the favor---now that I'm in a position to give something back, I will." I wonder if any of the current champions think that way? Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Sun Oct 29 23:08:48 PST 2000 I have tried at times to steer the topic back to the real purpose of this web site, Pugilistic Dementia but I think I will put my two cents in regarding a top ten for 1960 to 1980 heavyweights. Here goes: 1. Muhammed Ali 2. Larry Holmes 3. George Foreman 4.Joe Frazier 5. Sonny Liston 6. Ken Norton 7. Jerry Quarry 8. Jimmy Young 9. Jimmy Ellis 10. Floyd Patterson. I tried to think of how good each of these fighters was at their best no matter how short of a period their prime was and if a fighter such as Patterson had peaked earlier, ( I believe he was better between 1956 to 1959),I took that into account also. So Patterson would probably be rated higher during a 1950's. ranking. So to some of you that think a Quarry fan can't be objective, use some objectivity and be critical of my rankings. Please do so without any subjective name calling please! We have all had enough of that! Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Sun Oct 29 20:46:15 PST 2000 Norton made a career out of his first and only win against Ali. He had a style that gave Ali fits and that's what propelled him to his great career. Ali won the second fight and also, in my opinion, won the third fight in Yankee stadium (and hey, the judges agreed with me). Norton's awkward style made the fight close and it went the distance...but clearly, Norton did not do enough to take the title from a champion. In fact, a good strong case can be made that Jimmy Young defeated Norton and it should have been Young named as WBC champion (and Young to defend against Larry Holmes). Norton in his prime was easily knocked out by George Foreman. Shavers KOed Norton in one round and Norton wasn't too far out of his prime at that point (he was younger than Shavers). Cooney blasted him too, though that was when Norton was washed up. Norton's greatest fights were wins against Ali and Duane Bobick and losses against Ali (twice) and Larry Holmes. He was a quality heavyweight who fought in a tough era--- nothing more and nothing less. I think Quarry would have performed much better against Ken Norton had that fight been two years earlier. It would have been a war. PAUL MADUROS PMAD12@MAILEXCITE.COM Sun Oct 29 19:42:28 PST 2000 I would like to say that I'm not here to bash Ken Norton. I believe he was a tremendous athlete. His strengths were a fine jab , pretty good defense , great endurance , better than average power. His weaknesses were throwing arm punches at times , not fighting well backing up , very little footwork , a chin that would not hold up against big hitters. As far him against Shavers , he would have lost in any year he fought him. Matter of styles. Joe Krause sadmspats@yahoo.com Sun Oct 29 19:15:47 PST 2000 Norton was a flawed fighter, but when he was on a roll he was great to watch, one of my favorites of all-time. Norton was a shell of himself by the Shavers fight, he even admits that in his book which is an excellent read. I must say though that Jerry could have beaten Norton. I think it is an almost even proposition prime vs prime. I would give the edge to Norton, but Jerry could hit hard enough to get Ken in trouble, and that is when Norton became stationary and very easy to hit. It even happened twice in their fight in Jerry's twilight in 1975. Norton admits to as much in his book while saying that it was best performance of his career. The Cooney loss can't even be considered in the big picture because Norton was already in semi-retirement mode fighting once a year. If anyone actually thinks the Ken Norton of the mid 70's would have drew with Scott Ledoux I would love to hear their rationale. The point is Norton got mauled against Cooney TWO YEARS after the draw with Ledoux. Norton is my 6th best of the '60-'80 fighters, Quarry my 8th. They both were great ones and I would love to have seen a match in 1972 or 1973 instead of 1975. charles anderson ctjjand@soark.com Sun Oct 29 18:18:05 PST 2000 you know, the best thing is that as we grow up we all have our heroes. jerry quarry was one of mine. so was ali. so was jack nicklaus,arnold palmer,mickey mantle,and many others,but i will not take up this page for jerry sharing their accolades. lighten up a little norton fan, before i bring up gerry cooney's first round k.o. of ken.(sorry, i could not resist that.) thanks . Norton Fan JP JPierce@aol.com Sun Oct 29 17:51:10 PST 2000 A come on folks. Norton defeated a game Jimmy Young in an elimination match. With this victory he was to have a match with Leon Spinks for the title. It's not Norton's fault that Spinks backed away and opted intead for a rematch with Ali (where the money was). PAUL MADUROS PMAD12@MAILEXCITE.COM Sun Oct 29 15:43:21 PST 2000 You know I hear this all the time about how Ali was off 3 and one half years , however some people forget the fact that he was still only 28yrs. old. Plenty young to come back. As far as Norton goes what goes around comes around, He couldn't make it out of the first round with Shavers. My evaluation is Norton gave people trouble because he was a very akward fighter. Norton also was given a heavyweight without fighting for it. I didn't agree with that. As far as Jerry's memory declining , Jerry earned his respect long ago. NO EXCUSES NEEDED, LOOKS LIKE YOUR EVALUATOR MIGHT NEED FIXING. Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Sat Oct 28 17:34:59 PDT 2000 Mr. Evaluator JP. I have recently wathced the tape of the second Ali/Quarry fight and the only thing I meant was that Jerry had rallied somewhat in the six round after doing almost nothing in the first five rounds. On the tape when Ali waves the ref in after hitting Jerry with a hard combination at the beginning of the seventh round, Ali proceeds to land some more hard shots and the ref stopped the fight. I feel that Jerry wasn't that badly hurt and that he could have (and he wanted to) continued. I don't think that he would have won the fight if it had continued but as a fan of Jerry's, I wanted him to have the chance. As far as having an agenda against Ali or any other fighter nothing could be further from the truth! IF ANYTHING, WE HAVE AN AGENDA FOR ALI TO HELP FIND OUT IF HIS CURRENT CONDITION MAY HAVE BEEN AGGRAVATED BY BOXING AND TO HELP HIM AND OTHERS WITH THESE AFFLICTIONS. Finally Jerry never made excuses when he lost a fight. If you listen to his own words, you will notice that all he says is that he tried his best. NO ONE CAN EVER QUESTION JERRY QUARRY'S HEART! Jerry came from the old school that said quitting was not an option. They don't make as many fighters with the heart of lion as they used to. Fighters like Frazier,Foreman, Norton, Holmes, Quarry and of course Muhammed Ali will always be a cut above the rest regardless who won particular fights. Quarry Evaluator JP JPierce@aol.com Sat Oct 28 15:08:14 PDT 2000 Please Paul, Kent and Chuck. I myself take excuses with a grain of salt. If you truly watched the fight you'd see just like in the first when Ali was at a tremendous disadvantage (for being off 31/2 years) that Ali's handspeed is just too much for Quarry. I honestly don't understand what fight you all watch. I wish we could sit down together and analyze the sport. Is there anybody out there that does this? Quarry was out on his feet by the end of the 6th. If I remember correctly Ali was at one point begging the ref to end it. It's been a while since I watched it so correct me if I'm wrong. With all due respect do you think any boxer ever just comes out and says "The other boxer was the better man this fight". I think you know the answer to that. Very rarily if ever. Just look at that bozo Angel Manfreddy today. It's always a bad back, a hurt hand, high blood pressure, not my day today blah blah blah. All the times he loses. Much like Quarry in the past. Never could just admit that the other fighter was better. That's the way boxing is. Boxers are a people with a lot of pride. It seems the fans are no better. Guess what Quarry would've said if Ali whipped him (which he would've done) before the Foster-Quarry fight? He would have said "I was worried about my brother's fight after mine. I had his upcoming fight on my mind". SEE WHAT I MEAN!!! You just can't win. There are reasons why Quarry "won" as well. I can produce a whole lot of "excuses" why he won but out of respect for his legacy I will decline. Though this is a Quarry site and we should definately respect his talents we shouldn't feel the need to to put down other boxers accomplishments in the process. We shouldn't say Quarry won because he was the best but others beat him only because of this and that (not talent). Other boxers also had problems. In fact Ali had to slap Quarry since he suffered from swollen hands which had to be injected with pain-killers before every fight. This started after the Ali-Frazier 1 fight. It's due to his years of in-activity. Frazier also had to overcome some obsticals. Same with Holyfield today and many other boxers. As a scrolled throughout the posts I noticed some great writtings from the DKS fellow. I think you all "missed the point" (as Kent likes to say) on his messages. He simply wanted Ali to get his deserved respect not to put down Quarry. I'm not sure if you all have an agenda against certain figthers or not (ie Ali) but I hope not. I myself have an advantage since I'm a huge Norton fan. I believe Norton deserves his due. But like Krouse I too believe that Ali was the best of his time. Beating Ali twice (officially and unofficially) is what makes Norton more deserving of his due. Of course Ali was washed-up by the 1976 fight. Still Norton gave Ali hell twice in in the 2 1973 matches when Ali was in his prime. See even I can admit that Ali was washed by the time my man Norton beat him in 76. I'll even accept your claims of Quarry being out of shape against my Norton (though I still think Norton would've beaten Quarry no matter how healthy he was). Could any of you admit the same thing about Patterson. The Patterson Quarry faced was a shell of the one who faced Johannson, Liston and Ali I (1965). Yet the old Patterson still gave the young Quarry a heck of a battle (2 battles actually). I feel that it's high time that we boxing fans take our heads out of our hero's butts and be a little more objective. Thank you. Paul Maduros PMAD12@mailexcite.com Fri Oct 27 17:23:41 PDT 2000 I like to know who was good enough to outbox Ali? Taking nothing away from Muhammad Ali , I believe that in his second fight with Ali , Jerry came into the fight so upset about his brother, that whatever fight plan he had went out the window. He did seem to tire very quickly in that fight. I've watched this fight many, many times and think that it was more Jerry looking bad than Ali looking good. If it had been the Jerry of the first fight , he would have had a good chance to go the distance. When 2 fighters step into the ring, you really never know what will happen. Also I like E.S.P.N. to show some of Jerry's wins , MATHIS, SPENCER LYLE,PATTERSON,FOSTER and don't forget the hardest hitter of all time ERNIE SHAVERS , very dangerous. Joe Krause sadmspats@yahoo.com Fri Oct 27 14:02:26 PDT 2000 Here are the top 15 heavyweights from 1960-1980 in my opinion. Rating out of ten 1. Muhammad Ali- no one is even close- 10.0 2. George Foreman- Would have beaten Holmes in my opinion- 9.5 3. Joe Frazier- Head to Head losses to Foreman keep Joe here-9.4 4. Larry Holmes- Would not have dominated against 60' or 70's heavyweights the way he did against the weak 80's crop- 9.3 5. Sonny Liston- Ali beat him twice, Ali beats everyone. Liston was a GREAT fighter period- 9.2 6. Ken Norton- A half-step down from the top 5, had flaws but had special skills- 8.9 7. Floyd Patterson- A warrior who struggled as heavyweights got bigger- 8.8 8. Jerry Quarry- multi skilled fighter who had no real weakness besides cuts- 8.7 9. Ingemar Johansson- One punch dangerous puncher- 8.55 10. Ron Lyle- Lost best years to