The Jerry Quarry Foundation
Letter Archives 2001


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steve dmmsrm@home.com Wed Dec 12 21:25:11 PST 2001

It just occurred to me while reviewing Jerry's record and the dates of his fights that during his most successfull time periods ,he seemed to be fighting every three or four months.He must have been training constantly.I suppose it was a matter of "making hay while the sun shined".I viewed the heart breaking story of "Schoolboy Bobby Chacon"the other night.I can't help but wonder if this current crop of fighters has the right idea,fight only once a year.


steve dmmsrm@home.com Wed Dec 12 21:24:50 PST 2001

It just occurred to me while reviewing Jerry's record and the dates of his fights that during his most successfull time periods ,he seemed to be fighting every three or four months.He must have been training constantly.I suppose it was a matter of "making hay while the sun shined".I viewed the heart breaking story of "Schoolboy Bobby Chacon"the other night.I can't help but wonder if this current crop of fighters has the right idea,fight only once a year.


Kent orion, etc Wed Dec 12 18:48:18 PST 2001

I am picking Lewis to win but not because of the size difference. Tyson has just been too inactive to be at his best and the ring rust will be his undoing. I feel he needs at least four fights to be ready for a title fight. I can see Tyson getting frustrated because of his inability to get past the Lewis jab and when this happens, he tends to stand too straight up and throw only one punch at a time and then grab the other fighter and wrestle around the ring. By standing straight up and only throwing a punch at a time he plays right into the taller fighter's hands. Tyson needs to fight out of a crouch to make himself a samller target and he needs to charge in behind multiple left jabs while at the same time using side to side head movement. When he gets close to Lewis he then needs to throw combinations first to the body and then to the head. Tyson needs to throw pucbes in bunches in order to have the best chance to win. Of course there is always the Tyson power and that can never be discounted. Remember that Tyson looked terrible in most of the Douglas fight and he still almost pulled off a knockout with a tremendous uppercut I pick, as I think I said in an earlier post, Lewis by a decision. Lewis could also win by knockout as he is also a heavy hitter.


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Wed Dec 12 17:03:15 PST 2001

You mean a film of that fight can't be found anywhere? What a shame that is. Jerry vs. Mathis would be interesting to watch. As for good big man vs. good little man: Tyson is short, but far from a little man. A Pitbull can take down a much larger breed of dog---when I saw the destruction Tyson's punches caused Golata, it made me realize that Tyson might not be the same guy he was 10 years ago, but he still hits like he has a brick in his glove. If he lands any of this on Lewis, the fight could end very early. Lewis doesn't have the glass jaw so many people accuse him of---but he won't survive Tyson if Tyson is on the mark that night.


Joe Krause sadmspats@yahoo.com Wed Dec 12 10:00:57 PST 2001

In looking in one of my old Ring Magazines I came upon the recap of Quarry-Mathis. Jerry got the nod 10-1-1, 10-1-1 and 9-2-1 in rounds. That is real impressive considering Mathis was at 232 his preferred weight and the same weight he dominated Chuvalo at. It is a shame this fight is lost in the netherworld of old film. It must be a great performance by Quarry in the heart of his prime!


Paul Maduros pama42@yahoo.com Wed Dec 12 09:54:17 PST 2001

I just wanted to say that Jerry was around at the most perfect time in boxing , the sixtys and part of the seventies. I could just picture a movie about him. You'd be hearing all that great music from back then. What a sound track! I hope that it happens someday.


Jamed Quarry res0cjek@verizon.net Mon Dec 10 19:50:06 PST 2001

There's at fight coming up that is very attractive. Lennox Lewis vs Mike Tyson. I believe the old rules apply. A good little man will never win over a good big man. I think Lewis will knock out Mike Tyson inside of five rounds. Tyson is to easy to hit with right hands. It will be another Foreman vs Frazier.


Bob Bumbera renfbera@aol.com Sat Dec 8 07:18:18 PST 2001

I have to agree with you guys about the 60's and 70's. Holmes and Foreman were grandfathers and competitive with Holyfield,Mercer,Moorer etc. In most cases, when you sat down to watch a heavyweight fight in the 60's and 70's you never knew what would happen. Anybody could win! Most of todays heavies, as big as they are, can't punch, they just wear each other out then push them down, not knock 'em down with a crisp shot. They don't seem to be in as good a shape ether. Watch some of these guys walk back to their corner after a round or two. Other than Lewis,Byrd, who at 6'2" 220 is small by todays standards, the aging Tyson and Ray Mercer, most of these guys lack real boxing skill. Holyfield was born 20 years to late. Always in shape, well trained. Altough a bit of a billygoat, he would have done very well in the 70's era, but todays heavys, as unskilled as they are just too strong for a guy Evander's size. I don't know maybe I'm just an old fart waxing nostalgic, But I think the 90's crop is better compared with the 30's and 40's than the 70's. Thanks for letting me ramble. Oh yea, Norton won the third fight.


Joe Krause sadmspats@yahoo.com Fri Dec 7 17:54:58 PST 2001

The 90's were good, but the talent level wasn't even close. I watch how stiff these guys are now. Maybe it is because they are so much bigger, but geez i'm talking about crisp combinations and ring ability, not just brute strength. I remember how Shavers would throw that left hook to the body and as the guy goes down to block it he shoots the huge right over the top. Jerry had his classic left hook to the body which he eventually turns into a hook to the head when the other guy doesn't expect it. Ali more things then I can even mention. The one fighter who won't win anything probably but is a classic style fighter is Fres Oquendo. He is a joy to watch, but at 6'2 225 he will be in trouble against the huge guys. Oquendo is so very skilled and would fit in any era as a classic stylist type fighter. He is a joy to watch now and has been for his last 4 or 5 fights.


James Quarry TJQF Fri Dec 7 10:04:39 PST 2001

I remember saying to Jerry in the late 60's and 70's. When Jerry got into the ring against Frazier, Ali, Spencer, Ellis, Shavers, Lyle, Foster, Orbillo, all these fighter were in the best condition of thier lives. They all knew that if you got into the ring with Jerry, they had better be in the best condition ever and to fight thier best fight. If they didn't they were in trouble, may be shouldn't get into the ring with Jerry. Spencer was not properly prepared and look what happened to him. Lyle, was not at his best, look what happened. Some of the fighters that were at thier best at the time that was not good enough was Patterson, Orbillo, Foster and Mathis. Ellis would not fight Jerry, I know he got in the ring, he just wouldn't fight. Now the best of the "Golden Era" Ali, Frazier, On the nights they fought Jerry, they were in better shape and were better fighters. Each better in thier own style which on those nights proved that, one being a the perfect fighter in Joe Frazier and one being the perfect boxer, Muhammad Ali. I give these two fighters thier credit where credit is due. Norton beat Jerry way passed the time Jerry should have been out of the game. Foreman as scary as he was to fight, admits he dodged Jerry. Who could blame him. Jerry gave Lyle a boxing lesson and knocked out Shavers, probably the heavyiest puncher in the heavyweight history beside Cleveland Williams. Foreman was as smart as he was a champion. I know this, every fighter that Jerry fought, showed him the respect that he deserved. I'm sure that in thier minds at the time it would be possible for Jerry to win. They knew it. The Press knew it and so did the fans. Jerry's poem says it all. The Best of all time and Jerry was a part of it. Jerry brought out the best of them all, if they wanted to win. OH MAN I WISH YOU WERE HERE!


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Thu Dec 6 19:55:54 PST 2001

Couldn't have said it better Kent. The heavyweights of the 70's, primarily Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Norton, Holmes, Quarry, Shavers, Lyle and Young were a group that had, more than anything else, heart. These guys fed off eachother and brought out the best in their opponents. I think back to the pasting Jimmy Young was taking in the 7th round of the Foreman fight---but he survived it and actually turned tiger at the end of the round and eventually won the fight. Then there was Foreman getting up off the canvas to overcome Lyle. Lyle in his classic come from behind win over Shavers. Shavers destruction of Norton and Shavers two epic losses to Holmes. Holmes classic win over Norton---Norton's win (or wins according to some) over Ali. The Ali-Frazier trilogy. This doesn't even begin to bring Jerry Quarry into the picture---his defeats over Lyle and Shavers and his losses to Ali, Frazier and Norton. And the most classic trip back through memory lane includes the fights among this group that DIDN'T take place! Foreman-Quarry, 1973! Young-Holmes, 1978. Shavers-Foreman, anytime, anywhere. Lyle-Frazier---how would that one have gone? These 70's warriors had the hearts of lions. Among the 90's fighters, Holyfield showed this type of determination, Tyson showed this type of talent---but no one else was/is close. Lewis has been a pretty consistent champion, but I don't put him in with the elite 70's heavies. Who would have won Frazier-Lyle? Decision? KO?


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Thu Dec 6 19:05:22 PST 2001

Steve: It says a lot that Kellerman's list would include two fighters that were around in the 1970s on his list of the best heavyweights of the 1990s, George Foreman and Larry Holmes. That these two fighters, who were past their prime and still near the top of the crop of 90s fighters, tells me the earlier group of fighters was much better. I would say that the 1990s heavyweight field was stronger than the current crop but it can't campare to the strength of the division in the 60s, 70s, and even into the early 80s.


STEVE dmmsrm@home.com Thu Dec 6 13:31:56 PST 2001

I just heard a Max Kellerman radio enterview where He describes the 90's as the best,or at least the second best decade for heavywieghts of all time.He lists as His examples,Mike Tyson,Evander Hollyfield,Larry Holmes,George Foreman,Lennox Lewis,Riddick Bow,Ray Mercer,Tommy Morrison,Razor Ruddock.How do you guys think this list compares with the 70's guys?Where do you think Jerry would rank in this group?Mr. Quarry,your site is like a time machine for me.


charles anderson ctjjandfam@aol.com Thu Dec 6 11:13:56 PST 2001

hello jim, what is the latest on a book or movie about jerry? he should play a big part in the movie about ali because of it being a big part of boxing history.


Mr. Jimmy tjqf Wed Dec 5 19:11:52 PST 2001

Leave Kent alone. No one is trying to pretend to be someone we'er not. We are all invloved in a sport that we like, "Boxing" We might write about it, live it or be it. We just want to have fun and be productive. Kent handeled himself like a professional.


James Quarry TJQF Wed Dec 5 19:06:38 PST 2001

We were not contacted by the Producers of the new Ali movie. I do not know how Jerry will be portraid. In some of the passed films, Jerry's fight was passed over as a tune - up! There is alot riding on this new Ali movie making it. It means alot to me. I hope it does well.


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Wed Dec 5 18:04:04 PST 2001

I don't think Lyle is a forgotten fighter at all, at least not among true boxing fans. They guy gave a gutsy performance against Ali and some feel the fight was stopped prematurely. Young-Quarry would have been a great matchup, depending on when the fight would have taken place. Jerry would have tried like hell to force Young to fight, while Jimmy would be clever as always, moving, sticking, boxing. Young's performance against Big George Foreman was a boxing classic. The reason I think Holmes could have beaten Jerry is the same old issue, that is, cuts. Holmes was a master of using his jab to open cuts and deepen them. Holmes also had a size and weight advantage that would be tough to overcome, because he could take a hard punch and was very fast for his size.


kookooclock kookooclock000@yahoo.com Wed Dec 5 15:52:58 PST 2001

Ask and you shall recieve kent.. I'm going back into the woodwork.. but. before I do.. I would like to state what a know it all jerk KENT APPLE A DAY IS!! You need to have your clock cleaned... Farther more .. Foolface is nobodys fool.. Your always in somebodys business kent.. Sadly an Apple a day may never keep Kent Apple away..(( coo coo coo coo.....


Kent orion, etc. Tue Dec 4 15:50:49 PST 2001

To the regulars here: The battle lines have not been drawn. I am not responding to anything further from a certain individual(s)unless that person(s)has (have) something relevent to say. I will not dishonor the memory of Jerry Quarry or the Quarry family by doing any more senseless arguing. We have had enough of that in the past.


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Tue Dec 4 14:24:04 PST 2001

Where have you been Dougie my boy? A "fools" errand must take a long time I guess. I missed all of your rapier wit and you make me laugh more than you know! Mr. Jimmy Q granted me an interview several months ago and it is no longer posted here on the Quarry home page, so I am guessing that you went to one of the sites I write for (I have been doing this for about six months now)and you read it there. I don't care if you go to that site and say anything you want about my articles as the webmaster and editor like what I do, so have at it. Hey where is your buddy the Cookcoo Clock? I fully expect him to lay an egg here soon or at the Frazier site.


foolface foolface2@yahoo.com Tue Dec 4 13:17:46 PST 2001

i don't believe what i'm seeing / kent apple finally conned james quarry into giving him an interview/ WHAT A JOKE!!! / mr. quarry your above this guy/ does kent think he's howard cosell? / kent has turned this into his playground/ MR. QUARRY I HAVE GREAT RESPECT FOR YOU/ BUT KENT NEEDS TO GET A LIFE!!! P.S. KENT LEAVE THE QUARRYS ALONE!!!!!


Joe Krause sadmspats@yahoo.com Tue Dec 4 12:28:20 PST 2001

I hope Lyle is in the 64 man tourney, I almost am sure he is. Lyle was a near-great starting at 28. If he would have gone through a more typical route he could have been one of the best of any decade. Don't forget his near-win against Foreman where he had Big George on his way out a couple of times in that fight. Shavers vs Lyle is a forgotten classic and a great fight to pop in on a gloomy Tuesday Afternoon, maybe I will!


Mark Sargeant lpu00mts@reading.ac.uk Tue Dec 4 10:49:56 PST 2001

One man who should go far in this 64 man tournament is a very unheralded fighter from the 1970s and that is Ron Lyle. Lyle was an explosive fighter who could hit hard and take a very good punch. Climbing off the canvas to defeat Earnie Shavers should have put him in a great position in the history books, together with a wealth of victories over a number of very good fighters that made the era so great, such as Ellis, Bonavena, Bugner. Even that knockout of Buster Mathis was very impressive considering the latter's performance against Frazier up until he ran out of steam. He was winning against Ali before some familiar magic shhok him, proving his boxing skills were great. And for heart you only have to look at his performance against Foreman in which the 4th round is arguably the most exciting round in heavyweight history. All credit has to go to Jerry Quarry for his brilliant defeat of Lyle, but I wonder what record he could have established if he hadn't become a pro at 29 after 7 years in prison. You only have to look to Tyson to see the effect that can have on you. What are other people's opinions on Lyle, and can anyone explain why he's a forgotten man?


Johnny Q JohnQW@yahoo.com Mon Dec 3 14:55:05 PST 2001

Mr. Jimmy, Did the producers for the new Ali move contact you regarding Jerry? Have you heard how Jerry is portrayed in the move? My concern is that Ali will be presented as a saint and his opponents cast as bad guys (typical for Hollywood). It's clear with the passing of time that Ali's opponents were all good people struggling with their own lives and careers. I hope the movie portrays all the fighters with respect.


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Mon Dec 3 13:01:47 PST 2001

Andrew, it is interesting that you bring up Jimmy Young verses Jerry. Gil Clancy said that Jerry used fighters like Jimmy Young as sparring partners and that Jerry was dominate. Clancy called Jerry the best gym fighter he had ever seen. Maybe it was because of the head gear and there was no chance of Jerry getting cut that made Jerry seem better in the gym at times than he was in actual competition. The threat of a cut always loomed over Jerry's head as four of his eight losses, not counting the fiasco at 47 years old in Colorado, were due to cuts. If we take away the losses due to cuts, Jerry's record was 53-4 in the rest of his bouts, again not counting Colorado. That is an impressive record when not cut.


Andrew daprince24@yahoo.com Mon Dec 3 07:15:07 PST 2001

I believe what Foreman says on his web page about Jerry. I also believe that he is probably the best heavyweight to never win a world title. The sixth round of his second fight with Ali was inspiring. Jerry probably knew that he had lost, but before he did he left the crowd with something to remember him by. He was championship material. If he had been fighting in his prime during the 1980's he would have won a title. I don't know if he could beat Holmes but I know if they fought in their primes it would be a war. I've also been wandering if everyone else thinks Jerry would have beaten Jimmy Young.


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Sun Dec 2 20:16:27 PST 2001

I heard an interview Bob Costas did with Foreman. George said that Ali was the better fighter that night. He told Costas that he was overconfident and it was his mental state that lost the fight---interestingly, he also told Costas that if there had been a rematch a few months later, he probably would have lost again, because his attitude and approach handn't changed at that point. He was very complimentary of Ali. As for a fast count---maybe it was, as Foreman seemed to stumble to his feet between 9 and 10---but he was totally out and Ali was on fire. The fight would have ended shortly thereafter, no doubt about it. George had nothing left. In fact, his punches had deteriorated to nothing but pats after the 6th round. Jerry Quarry lost to some of the greatest fighters in history, and his losses are on those highlight reels---which is why uninformed armchair fans spew that nonsense about "the guy that got knocked out all the time." When someone views JERRRY'S highlight reel---the good rounds against Frazier, the defeats over Lyle, Spencer, Shavers, etc.---the courageous performances he's famous for---suddenly they know how great a figher he was.


Joe Krause sadmspats@yahoo.com Sun Dec 2 19:59:59 PST 2001

Kent you are right on. So many people judge fighters by what they remember or see on classic sports. Somebody I was talking to asked me "Isn't he the guy that got knocked out all the time." I asked him if he remembered Earnie Shavers and the guy said hell ya, that guy could punch. I slipped in Quarry vs Shavers and about 3 minutes later my buddy said "Quarry did that to Shavers?" Then I showed my friend Jerry's record and how he beat Lyle and Patterson and other decent guys. He said "I guess I didn't remember or know all that." There are fringe fans everywhere that remember little of the true accomplishments of many contenders. They are what made Ali and Frazier so special, because if you beat Quarry you must have been something special all right.


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Sun Dec 2 15:20:52 PST 2001

I have always thought that Ali also got into the head of Jerry in their second fight. The turning point was near the end of the second round when Jerry landed a hard left/right combination to the head of Ali. Ali then pretends to wobble and play acts, scornful of Jerry's punches. I am sure that he probably had some "trash talk" thrown in there too such as, "is that as hard as you can punch? My grandma hits harder than that!" Ali's clowning was so obvious that the audience broke into laughter. So instead of gaining an advantage by landing a good combination, the fire in Jerry's attacks seemed gone after this second round. From the third round to near the end of the sixth round in which Ali turned up the pace to try to get Jerry out of there and Jerry fought back hard like the real Jerry Quarry, Jerry plodded after Ali throwing half hearted punches one or two at a time and in the meantime, he absorbed dozens of Ali jabs and rights. A lot of people have said that watching Mike get brutally knocked out by Bob Foster on the same card had something to do with Jerry's lackluster performance and there may be some truth to his added with my idea of Ali getting into his head. But before I get critized again for making excuses for Jerry losing to Ali, I would like to say that Ali was the better fighter and Jerry's counter punching style just didn't match up to Ali well and he probably would have lost to Ali anyway. I would have just liked to see Jerry fight hard even if he lost. It bothers me that TV channels like ESPN usually only show this second fight with Ali and people think Jerry fought like that all of time when in reality it was the worst performances of his career and he fought much better, even in other losing efforts.


Bob Bumbera renfbera@aol.com Sun Dec 2 07:21:27 PST 2001

I also remember George saying he was drugged well after he lost the title. The ropes were loose, the count was fast etc... In a recent interview however, he said he "lost to a better man". I don't know if it's blasphamy to speak badly of Ali. He had some bad fights. But against George he took some of the hardest shots I've ever seen and not go down. It always amazes me when I watch a Foreman fight he hit so hard he moves people off their feet, and Ali was no exception. But, it wasn't his body that kept him up, it was his will. Also, Geroge was never known to have great endurence and Ali knew that. After George would land a punch, Ali would ask him "is that all you got George". Foreman said he remembers thinking "yep, that's about it." I guess after you knock out Joe Fraizer and Ken Norton and this old guy is still standing there mocking your punching power, you would think something was up. George was getting up at the count of nine, even if he had beaten the count, he was finished, he had nothing left. Ali would have won. His will was was too great. It's interesting how a fighters state of mind can win or loose a fight for him. Foreman questions this greatest asset against Ali and looses. Ali taunts Joe Frazier saying "your in here with God man" and Frazier comes back with "if your God your in the wrong place tonight" and wins. Ali was a master of his mind and in most cases the minds of the people he defeted. Ali was the greatest heavyweight in history. Period.


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Fri Nov 30 14:40:11 PST 2001

Kent, I'll try to find the interviews..I have them somewhere..when I get back I'll mail you. Bye for now..Evren


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Fri Nov 30 12:43:37 PST 2001

Mark and Evren, George Foreman has admitted that it was just sour grapes concerning him being drugged for the Ali fight. He now says he lost fair and square. Evren; I don't know where you have heard, except right after the fight, where George says anything but he lost, pure and simple.


Joe Krause sadmspats@YAHOO.COM Fri Nov 30 12:21:32 PST 2001

Drugged before Ali and found the lord after Young. Make no mistake he lost those fights on merit and merit alone. He is one of my favorites of all time, but excuses taint Ali's legacy throughout his career. Ali was magic plain and simple


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Fri Nov 30 10:10:00 PST 2001

Having see countless interviews in the last 15 years with George Foreman it appears to me that George does still believe he was drugged as he has mentioned it once or twice. But recently, however, I have found he is 'covering himself up' by saying that he thought of any excuses he could at the time of the fight..i.e - fast count..drugged water,loose ropes, drugged food, witchcraft etc.etc..anything but that he lost fair and square.Nowadays it is Blasphemy almost to say anything that may be detremental to Ali as that would reflect badly upon oneself, so maybe George does'nt want to persist in excuses as it puts him in the 'sore loser' category. I feel someone with as much pride as Foreman would not have admitted at the time to losing to a better fighter on the night so he did look for escuses and he seemed to have convinced himself of the druuged water. I dont think the referee counted to eight..I recall Zack Clayton counting 9 then..out ! As he did in Quarry vs Chuvalo. I remember the commentator counting George out at eight as he seemed to lose the count midway through. So to clarify this as it is a little confusing I think..After the fight Foreman believed he was drugged..years later in early comeback stages he mentioned this occasionally so clearly believed it then.As people became tired of the excuses he stopped mentioning it and joked at himself by saying 'I came up with many excuses at the time'. But..I believe he still does believe he was drugged..just never mentions it anymore...Evren


Mark Sargeant lpu00mts@reading.ac.uk Fri Nov 30 06:57:50 PST 2001

There has been an interesting discussion on the Frazier website concerning the controversies surrounding the Ali-Foreman fight. What surprises me is that I have heard very few people query the decision to count Foreman out when he was clearly up at the count of 8. Being down would not automatically mean out as he proved against Ron Lyle. There is also confusion over whether Foreman was drugged-does anybody know if he still maintains this?


Joe Krause sadmspats@yahoo.com Fri Nov 30 06:31:03 PST 2001

Spencer would get steam rolled by Tyson. A straight-ahead guy without a big punch, bad combo to fight Tyson with. Spencer has always been little overrated in my book. He beat a mentally frazzled Ernie Terrell (post Ali) to move high in the rankings, but I am not overally impressed with his record or skills. He lost twice to Big Train Lincoln in his "prime" and also lost to Bill McMurray. Jerry certainly should have beaten Thad, and did so quite easily. Tyson in 2 round KO. I have never seen Farr fight, I know he was like 100-30 with 30 knockouts approx. He beat shop-worn Max Baer and went the distance with Louis in Louis' prime. He also beat Tommy Loughran and some other fringe contenders. He is probably the most obscure of the 64 guys in this tournament. I pick Williams to win a decision in 12 competitive rounds on conjecture alone.


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Thu Nov 29 20:21:10 PST 2001

Biorhythms are well known by many athletes and sometimes they do schedule events around these charts. I remember World-International Boxing did a feature on this back in the late 70's. Tyson in 3-4 rounds over Spencer and "The Truth" Williams a winner by unanimous decision.


charles anderson ctjjandfam@aol.com Thu Nov 29 15:48:16 PST 2001

i remember now reading about jerry's thoughts about bio-rythms in one the many boxing magazines i subsribed to back then. couldn't wait to get them waiting to see if jerry would be in them. have not looked at one in over 20 years. wished i still had my old ones.


James Quarry TJQF Wed Nov 28 17:56:58 PST 2001

I don'T know if this means anything to anyone. Has anyone heard of Bio-Rythums. If you know what they are then you will understand when I say, the night Jerry fought frazier the first time. Jerry was on a triple critical. Meaning in three catagories mentally, physically and emotionally Jerry was on his worst day in the cycle. Had I known about bio-rythums then, I would have tried to postpone the fight. Everything goes wrong on a day like that. He was prone to be in an accident. You can buy a book about it. Then check out what I really mean by all this.


Bob Bumbera renfbera@aol.com Wed Nov 28 17:50:05 PST 2001

Evren, Kent hit the nail on the head. I remember watching the young Tyson and thinking to myself this guy is going to be great for a long time, then being disapointed how his personal life progressed, and ruined himself as an athlete to admire. I guess I still have some hope for the guy. Your right about Lewis also. As I said before, this guy is a top ten all time heavyweight champion who has'nt involved himself in any of the nonsense alot todays athletes do. A true champ. I still think Lewis will stop Tyson. Anyway, Tyson KO's Spencer in one. Farr takes a dull 12 round D over Williams.


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Wed Nov 28 16:46:00 PST 2001

I pick Mike Tyson to win by fifth round knockout over Spencer and Carl Williams to win by decision over Farr.


charles anderson ctjjandfam@aol.com Wed Nov 28 16:37:48 PST 2001

jerry fought joe alexander as a tune up for frazier 2. did you detect jerry maybe had overtrained, because he did not appear to be very sharp in either of these fights. what was jerry's thoughts after the alexander fight?


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Wed Nov 28 11:23:51 PST 2001

Ali and Liston go through easy...next round.Thad Spencer takes on Mike Tyson and in the second bout Tommy Farr meets Carl Williams..this will be the last draw for a while as I am away in India for a couple of weeks - will be back on the 17th Dec...Best Wishes Evren.


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Mon Nov 26 15:20:56 PST 2001

I think there is always a tendency to root for the former champion trying to make it back..we have all done it I'm sure...I wanted Holmes to beat Tyson when they fought..Tyson had'nt done much wrong up to that point..I guess we'll never understand....ourselves !!!!


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Mon Nov 26 12:17:02 PST 2001

Sorry to dispappoint you Evren, but I would also like to see Tyson defeat Lewis. Maybe it has to do with something about seeing if he can fullfil potential that he seemed to have screwed up with his checkered personal problems or maybe we tend to root for our countrymen. I am not sure which. You are right that Lewis seems to be the one we should root for as he has always been on the right side of the law and he shows class and dignity in a sports world severely lacking of it. I am not sure how to answer this.


RICHARD PERRY rjperryautos@hot mail.com Mon Nov 26 09:26:05 PST 2001

Mr. James Quarry, I was supprised to see your son "Eric" and my video on your web page..this is a true honor i will never forget.. I collected boxing videos many years before I met your son and came to know the family..and 1 of Mikes with Foster,and and Jerrys with Ali,Lyle,Shavers..Jerry and Mike were always on my list of the top ten.... I belive it was Gil Clancy..who said at the world Boxing Hall of Fame said" Jerry Quarry and Armondo Muniz were the 2 best fighters to never become World Champions.


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Mon Nov 26 02:52:57 PST 2001

That's an interesting comment Bob..why would you want Tyson to win. Is it because he is American. Lewis has never done a thing wrong and has always held his dignity in public and has never broke the Law. He is a consumate proffessional and I hope the good guy wins for once....


Bob Bumbera renfbera@aol.com Sun Nov 25 16:57:29 PST 2001

Sorry I missed the Frazier,Norton fights. Ali wins this one in the eighth round. Snipes gets in a a few body shots but he's fighting a prime Ali. What else can you say. Liston jabs "Big" John's head off. Liston in five. Tate is bigger but so slow. His face is a mess after five and the ref stops it. Angelo, Tyson may very well take out Lewis, to tell you the truth, I'd like to see him win. I think it all depends on which Mike shows up, and maybe, which Lewis shows up. I hope we find out in March or April.


Joe Krause sadmspats@yahoo.com Sun Nov 25 15:10:11 PST 2001

Liston overwhelmes Tate and stops him in the 3rd round with a left hook. Ali wins every round and destroys Snipes in the 5th with a 7 punch combination. On to bigger and better things for these guys!


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Sun Nov 25 10:12:31 PST 2001

I pick Ali to stop Snipes in the seventh round and Liston to also stop Tate in the seventh round.


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Sat Nov 24 21:49:51 PST 2001

Ali and Liston advance. Ali in his prime would frustrate Snipes and ultimately score a TKO. He might toy with Snipes for a couple rounds and even give away a round or two, but once on track, with his mind in the fight, he would outbox Snipes and dance circles around him, probably finishing him up by the middle rounds. Liston would ice Tate relatively early. If Liston came out firing, backing Tate up, he might win with a frightening KO. Tate would have to circle Liston and backpeddle---but I think a well oiled Liston would cut the ring off and take Tate out in two rounds.


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Fri Nov 23 15:05:20 PST 2001

Mathis and Witherspoon are out - A couple of this sites favourites are through..Frazier and Norton. In the next round we see Renaldo Snipes take on the one and only Muhammad Ali and in the second match we have Sonny Liston vs 'Big' John Tate..results by monday please...Evren


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Thu Nov 22 14:53:26 PST 2001

I believe Mathis would surprise a lot of people by taking the early rounds and have a decent lead going into the latter stages 'till Norton accelerates and Mathis tires enabaling Ken to secure an eleventh round TKO. Frazier vs Witherspoon is a dream match with the difference being in that Tim would'nt have the footwork to move out of the way of Frazier who would grind him in 9 very exciting rounds.


Mr. Jimmy boxerquarry@netscape.net Thu Nov 22 05:20:53 PST 2001

When Jerry and I were kids we used to fight over the pumkin pie. Finally mom would make one for me and one for Jerry. That's where I am this morning. Atascadero, Calif. For this Thanksgiving. So I'm on line via lap top. Have a good holiday season to all our family and friends. Jerry is in all our hearts.


Sabrina Quarry-Porter sabrinalporter@aol.com Thu Nov 22 03:57:44 PST 2001

I HOPE YOU ALL HAVE A VERY HAPPY THANKSGIVING...WE LOVE AND MISS YOU UNCLE JERRY....I KNOW YOU ARE WITH US ON THIS DAY AND ALWAYS...


Sonia Hathaway (Quarry) SHath2163@aol.com Wed Nov 21 22:06:33 PST 2001

HAPPY THANKSGIVING TO ONE AND ALL! WE LOVE & MISS YOU UNCLE JERRY!


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Wed Nov 21 04:50:18 PST 2001

Frazier and Norton (good friends) would advance. Norton by a mid-late round TKO over Mathis and Frazier with a decision win over Witherspoon. People forget how good Terrible Tim Witherspoon COULD HAVE been. Don King might have had a hand in stalling Witherspoon's career by keeping him on the outside looking in, on big fights. But Frazier's heart would carry him to a victory. Tyson will KO Lewis.


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Wed Nov 21 01:34:38 PST 2001

Terry: you need to revote as we are voting on Norton vs. Buster Mathis, not Buster Douglas.


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Tue Nov 20 18:36:24 PST 2001

In war of attrition, Smokin Joe would wear down Witherspoon by the 7th round and win by knockout. Ken Norton would stop Buster Mathis in round seven after losing the first three rounds to Mathis' boxing skill.


Terry fitefan Tue Nov 20 18:09:29 PST 2001

I'll pick Frazier in a walk over 'Spoon' & Norton handily outpoints Douglas.


Joe Krause sadmspats@yahoo.com Tue Nov 20 15:24:18 PST 2001

Frazier would lose the first round, but start to chop Witherspoon down in the second. By the third round Witherspoon is in full retreat and the referee stops it after he fails to answer the 4th round bell. Frazier by TKO. Mathis was taylor made for Norton. A dancer without a huge punch that would allow Norton to be the aggressor. Late in the fight in the 11th round after being up about 7-3 Norton would land a torrid 4 punch combo that would knock Mathis down and out. Norton by KO in 11th.


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Tue Nov 20 13:11:33 PST 2001

That's Williams through by virtue of a Knockout over Mad Max and in a split decision La Starza goes through (3 votes to 2). Next round - Smokin' Joe Frazier takes on 'Terrible' Tim Witherspoon and in the second bout of the night Ken Norton meets Buster Mathis Snr - results by Friday.


IKE FLUELLEN ifluellen@yahoo.com Tue Nov 20 10:22:22 PST 2001

This is a great web-site. I never knew it existed. Cleveland Williams was a great fighter and a terrific person.This page sure brings back some memories.


Bob Bumbera renfbera@aol.com Mon Nov 19 08:43:27 PST 2001

Tyson does have the punch but, don't forget the quickness. If Mike is in shape,220-225 he can beat anybody. The big question mark is his mental condition. He can fall apart when he's hurt. Remember, he has never gotten off the canvas to win a fight. When he's down he's finished. Lewis is a top ten all time great Heavyweight, though he's bigger than Mike, Tyson is not bothered by size, it's boxing skill he has problems with. I'd like to see this fight. I beleive Lewis would knock him out in 7 or 8 rounds.


Kent oriononside@aol.com Sun Nov 18 16:27:42 PST 2001

Mr. Jimmy and Carl: I will say that this site is also in the top 25 boxing websites. How could it not be? I agree that Joe Krause's website is one of the best I have seen. A little credit where credit is due. When Jonathan W. complimented me on coming up with information fast about Duane Bobick, I did what I often do, and that is I looked up his record on a link from Joe's site. On another note: well folks it looks like we have Lennox Lewis as heavyweight champion again. There is now talk of a Lewis verses Tyson fight and my opionon on this is I pick Lewis by a decision if Tyson doesn't take at least two or three tune up fights to get rid of some of the ring rust he has accmulated. Tyson has just not been active enough, so this gives the edge to Lewis. Of course, there is always that Tyson punch. That's what makes his fights so unpredictable. Any opionons on a Lewis/Tyson match up?


jonathan White Hurricane861@hotmail.com Sun Nov 18 13:07:11 PST 2001

It is my opinion that although Cooney was a bit overhyped, he still was, an exceptional fighter. Anyone who could KO A guy as tough as Ken Norton in one round, 58 seconds, has to be one hell of a puncher...the only other fighter that KO'd Norton so brutally was the infamous power puncher Earnie Shavers, and he was in a league all his own. Also, Earnie Shavers caught him aroudn the same time, and no one belittles that victory.Ron Lyle was damn good too, another KO1 there. and Ron Lyle could punch with the best of them. Cooney also held his own against Larry Holmes, lasting thirteen rounds before being stopped, and you kow he would have continued had Valle not wisely forced Lane to stop the bout. He did better against Holmes than say, Lean Spinks(KOby3) did. Or Earnie Shavers did in thier second fight(TKOby11)or even Muhammad Ali did against him.((11th round stoppage, although to be fair, Ali had no business in the ring with anybody, the least of which being Larry Holmes) and as for his loss to Michael spinks, think about how he was deep in a cocaine addiction at the time, and its pretty obvious why his performance was so lame. goerge Foreman? Well, gerry rocked his world with a big left in the first round that Foreman later said was one of the only punches he ever took that hurt him bad enough that he didnt even feel it. also, Cooney is a fine human being. His F.I.S.T. organization lets retired pugs find jobs and get training to do those jobs well. Hes a humanitarian, and a likable character. I repect Gerry Cooney, and stii base my left hook in his.


Joe Krause sadmspats@yahoo.com Sun Nov 18 08:13:45 PST 2001

Thanks James, the webpage has given me a chance to talk to many fans of the best era in boxing history. Time has been tight lately and I haven't had a chance to much with it, but I will in the future. The page is www.geocities.com/sadmspats/


Carl Weingarten TJQF Sat Nov 17 06:53:40 PST 2001

As James mentioned, his son Eric boxed in a benefit event recently. Soon the home page will feature info and photos from the match. In the mean time, here's a sneak preview of the video. As with the other clips on the web site, you'll need the RealPlayer installed on your computer, and at least a 56k connection. Click HERE for the video.


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Sat Nov 17 05:53:40 PST 2001

Well let's also face the fact that though guys like Norton and Jimmy Young were past their primes when Cooney beat them, they were by no means pushovers. Norton in his 30's was still very dangerous and Young was still clever and tactical. These guys still could have taken most of the fighters in the world---so let's not make it seem as though beating them wasn't any type of accomplishment.


Mr. Jimmy boxerquarry Fri Nov 16 16:11:09 PST 2001

Bobick was the trial horse of a fighter. You had to beat him or his class of fighter to make it to the top 10.


James Quarry TJQF Fri Nov 16 16:09:11 PST 2001

Joe, you are in the top 25, in my book. Category, Boxing Web Pages.


Joe Krause sadmspats@yahoo.com Fri Nov 16 06:28:00 PST 2001

Bobick surely should be respected. He was a decent fighter that was able to beat some other decent fighters. He was not a great fighter and was probably never better then #25 or so in the world. I would like to be #25 in the world in anything. Bobick was.


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Thu Nov 15 19:03:54 PST 2001

It is agreed that Duane Bobick was not a great fighter but I do believe a good one. The main point about me taking up for him is him being made fun of. The people that laugh at the sound of his name and put down a young white fighter, our young Mr. Jonathan White, by calling him Bobick, could only hope to have a succesful amatuer career and a top 10 or at least top 20 ranking as a pro. A lot of people talk a lot better of a game than they have ever fought, myself included. All I am saying is Bobick deserves to be respected, nothing less and nothing more.


JIMMY DORSEY RONNYRAINS@YAHOO.COM Thu Nov 15 12:10:45 PST 2001

ONE MORE THING ON BOBICK AND I WILL GET OFF THE SUBJECT,(HOPEFULLY FOREVER). ITS REALLY SOMETHING HOW FIGHTER'S LIKE BOBICK,COONEY AND EVEN JOE BUGNER CAN ATTAIN A WORLD TOP TEN RATING WITHOUT ACTUALLY BEATING ONE, AND OUR JERRY WAS NEVER EVER GIVEN ANY FAVORTISM AS FAR AS RATINGS WERE CONCERNED(HE EARNED THEM ALL)THEY GAVE LEOTIS MARTIN #1 RATING IN 7O' AND WERE RELUCTANT TO GIVE JERR ONE (AND THEY FINALLY DID).I HAVE RESEARCHED A LOT. QUARRY BEAT 8 TOP TENER'S IN HIS TIME, PATTERSON#5, SPENCER#2, MATHIS#6, FOSTER#1, BODELL#8, MIDDLETON#7, LYLE#3, SHAVERS#6, IN WHICH ONLY EARNIE AND LYLE PROGRESSED AFTER A QUARRY BEATING. EVEN NAT FLEICHER REFUSED TO PUT JERRY IN THE RING MAGAZINES TOP TEN IN 1967 UNTIL HIS DRAW WITH THEN 3RD RANKED FLOYD PATTERSON.


ray joekevin@cs.com Thu Nov 15 08:26:30 PST 2001

Hi friends, Angelo, thanks for validating my point (although, I am not sure if that was your intention). Cooney was a decent fighter, but certainly not very good fighter. I mean you admit his record was padded with victories over club fighters and former greats. He never managed to beat a genuine contender. Bobick was a "top 15 or 20 for a year or two", is that really remarkable. Given his circumstances one would expect at the very minimum he would be in the "top 15 or 20 for a year or two." One more point to look at, those ratings in the middle to late 70's were not legitimate. Remember Don Kings USA Championship Tournament, it was determine by an investigation that the ring ranking of many of the fighter's in that Tournament were there as result of payoffs to Johnny Ort editor of Ring Magazine and the man responsible for Ring Magazine's ratings. Their ratings were so bogus Marvin Hagler was not even selected for the Tournament. If the rankings of the "Bible Of Boxing" were corrupt I really have to question the ratings of other so called organizations. The point being Cooney and Bobick were given a lot of credit for potential they never reached, and goals never attained.


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Wed Nov 14 18:30:53 PST 2001

Knockout win for Cleveland Williams and close decision to Sharkey. I might have been thinking of Young Sanford (who Bobick beat) and recalled Jody Ballard. No, Bobick wasn't a great fighter, but if he was top 15 or 20 for a year or two, that's still remarkable. And Cooney had a great punch---lots of guys on their way up pad their record against club fighters and former greats---don't act like Cooney was the only one. Cooney lasted 13 rounds with Holmes and managed to hold his own for a few of them. Larry Holmes was a great champion who made lots of top 10 fighters look worse than Cooney. In fact, if anything, because Cooney is remembered for losses in his important fights, I think people have a habit to not give him ENOUGH credit---he was decent, a very good heavyweight in his day.


Bob Bumbera renfbera@aol.com Wed Nov 14 17:50:40 PST 2001

I think Williams would have beaten Bear. Williams was a greate puncher and better boxer, although Bear showed his real potential vs. Max Schmeling, and was faster than Williams and could take a whollop too. But, Williams in 2. Sharkey-LaStarza. This one could go either way. Both men were great boxers, Sharkey maybe an edge in speed. I'll give a 12 round D to Sharkey. Hey Jonathan, keep working on your foot work. For inspiration, try to find some photos of Rocky Marciano. Check out his thighs! Also, Joe Frazier and Mike Tyson. Both have huge thick "treetrunk" legs. It all came togehter for them. If you work at it, it will for you too. Good luck!


Jonathan White hurricane861@hotmail.com Wed Nov 14 14:48:08 PST 2001

Hey everyone. I thought I'd share a story that just came together last night. when I was just starting out, my first sparring session was with a guy who had a big size advantage on me. not being used to being hit, and my reflexes no being so good, I was getting so beaten up that my trainer called it and dragged me out. i cried from the shame of it. But just a week ago, that guy, who had been MIA from training for about six months, came back. his stamina diminished and his weight ballooned. Whereas I'd been training that whole time, and sharpening my skills. when I got back in the ring to move around with him a bit, I was shocked just how much his skills had diminished. If I threw a jab all night that didnt land right on the button, I sure didnt know it. I kept putting down his straight shots and ducking easily under his "Western Union" punches. by the end of the third of four rounds, he was exhausted, and I couldnt help but pity him, even if he was'nt the nicet guy who had made sure to rub it in my face when he mopped the floor with me way back when. in the middle of the fourth round, I wasnt putting any real power behind my shots, it was after all, sparring. Suddenly my trainer is yelling for me to get busy. I shrugged and went after him, smacking his defensive jabs down and peppering his head and body with combinations. then my trainer, who was not fond at all of the man, told me to knock him down, so disgusted he was with his performance. i didnt intend to, but I guess Joe saying that psyched him out, I threw a right hand that landed high on his head and he staggered to a knee. After the bell rung, Joe rustled my headgear, and commenced unstrapping my gloves while he preached to my sparring partner, telling him that if he didnt start working harder, he was gonna throw him out. I guess the point of the story is that size doesnt matter all that much. Its who prepares better that becomes the better fighter. And also, I wanted to brag. Cause that first sparring session haunted me for the longest time. And now, Im free of it.


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Wed Nov 14 11:16:33 PST 2001

Results on the fights before I go..La Starza is my pick on points after running away in the last few rounds to get a split decision...In the next a real war that goes back and forth but it is Baer who crumbles after taking a savage pounding on the ropes from the Cat's awesome power..Wow !Williams in five. Next tuesday for the next two bouts...


Jonathan White hurricane861@hotmail.com Tue Nov 13 14:53:18 PST 2001

Hey everyone, I wanted to ask a question of any present/past fighters out there. I am a serious amateur fighter, under an excellent coach, who trains very hard. I love the game, Its one of the most important things in my life. I have a good amount of talent, As well as a killer right hand. But my question is about footspeed. My footspeed is in need of serious improvement. I run sprints, and gallop around the ring at my gym as fast as I can, but my speed doesnt seem to increase. I have an idea it might be due to my legs. My legs are very thick, and solid like treetrunks. Although they give me alot of torque for my power shots, Im worried that they might have an effect on my footwork. I dont think its a natural slowness, I have above average handspeed and a quick jab that can hurt you. I'm wondering if you guys have any techniques, like stretches or types of sprints or the like. Thanks for your time, and if anyone is around Bridgeport, CT come December, the Police activies league gym which I fight out of should be putting on a boxing show around Christmas.


Kent oriononside@aol.com Mon Nov 12 16:50:02 PST 2001

I am picking La Starza by close decision over Sharkey and in a wild one, Max Baer by 6th round knockout over C. Williams


Joe Krause sadmspats@yahoo.com Mon Nov 12 16:10:08 PST 2001

Max Baer was a good fighter, but I really think Cleve would have taken him out. Williams was avoided like the plague in his prime by everyone but Liston. Williams would stun Baer and knocked him out with a hook in the 4th round. La Starza was top shelf all the way. He is the one guy who had a good claim that he beat Marciano. I think he would have danced his way to a decisive decison by 3 or 4 points per scorecard.


James Quarry boxerquarry@netscape.net Mon Nov 12 13:07:22 PST 2001

We gave permission for the picture in Pulp Fiction. We limited how they could use the picture. I never had a conversation about Sonny Liston with Jerry. I do remember Jerry being offerered a fight with Liston. There is a Jimmy and Jerry Ellis. They are brothers. We felt it strange when we met when Jerry fought Jimmy.


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Mon Nov 12 12:18:06 PST 2001

I would pick Holyfield to stop Mildenberger some way late in the fight and Folley to outsmart Spinks for a unanimous decision...the next round will be the last for a while as I am away.....1st fight :-Cleve Williams vs Max Baer (wow) and secondly - Roland La Starza vs Jack Sharkey..speak soon..Kent...is it okay for the recordings...- mail me..thanks..Evren


ben swaab ben.swaab@norstrom.com Mon Nov 12 12:07:00 PST 2001

Did anyone notice that in the movie Pulp Fiction there was a picture of Jerry on the wall. It was in the scene when Bruce Willis went back to his apartment to get his watch, on the wall is a picture of Jerry in front of the cover of 1968 Ring Magazine. I think it was meant to be Bruce Willis, I have that same Magazine. The picture of Jerry on the cover might of been done by Leroy Neiman the artist. James do you remember when promoters were trying to set up a fight with Jerry against Sonny Liston, did Jerry ever meet Sonny and if he did what did he think of him? I was watchting a tape of the Jimmy Ellis vs Floyd Patterson fight in 1968 I had to laugh, Howard Cosell kept calling Jimmy Ellis Jerry Ellis. You know he was think of Jerry Quarry.


JIMMY DORSEY RONNYRAINS@YAHOO.COM Mon Nov 12 11:53:27 PST 2001

ANGELO: NO BOBICK NEVER FOUGHT JODY BALLARD, YOU COULD LOOK UP HIS AND OTHER HEAVIES RECORDS THRU JERRY QUARRY FOUNDATION CALLED "70'S HEAVYWEIGHTS". BOBICK BUILT HIS RECORD CAREFULLY ON CLUB FIGHTER'S AND HAS BEENS. TO 38-0 32 KO'S VERY FORTUNATE TO EVEN BEAT BRITAIN'S BUNNY JOHNSON, I HAD HIS VEGAS WIN OVER YOUNG SANFORD 10 ROUNDS 6 TO 4 BOBICK. AND HE TASTED A VERY HARD RIGHT FROM CHUCK WEPNER, BEFORE STOPPING HIM WITH A BODY PUNCH (NO KNOCKDOWNS). HE WAS A TOP 15 TO 20 HEAVWEIGHT, WHO NEVER OFFICIALLY BEAT A TOP TEN FIGHTER. ALTHOUGH I DO THANK JODY BALLARD DID HOLD A WIN OVER RODNEY BOBICK.


James Quarry TJQF Mon Nov 12 08:41:53 PST 2001

My PC at home office is down again. I was trying to reinstall windows 95. it is now locked up again. Some time in the next week I'll get it fixed. In the mean time I'll work with my lap top.


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Sun Nov 11 22:41:24 PST 2001

Jonanthan: You have no need to apologize for the Bobick comment as you were passing on informantion that other boxers, probably black and other minorities, were teasing you, a white fighter, by calling you Bobick. I just wanted to set the record straight about him because so many people, whites included, make him the "butt" of their jokes. I will repeat my challenge to them, when they make the United States olympic team and defeat fighters of the quality of Larry Holmes and Teofelio Stevenson in the amatuers (I had forgotten that Bobick had beaten Stevenson before the olympics), and when they have a pro record at least as good as his was, then they can talk. Bobick may have not been a great professional and he was a flawed fighter, with a "glass jaw" and I will mention here, not very good defensive skills, he was still a world class main event pro and it takes talent, work, and determination to even make it that far. He deserves our respect for trying to do something that most of us only dream of.


Ray joekevin@cs.com Sun Nov 11 20:12:21 PST 2001

Hi friends, my feelings about Bobick and Cooney. Bobick was a complete washout as a pro. Maybe as an amateur he was vey good, but as a pro he was no better than a club fighter. This is not a reflection of him as a person it is as a fighter. Cooney is another fighter who is vastly overrated. The few name opponents that he defeated were washed up fighters, long past their primes, Jimmy Young, Ken Norton, Ron Lyle... Cooney was stopped by Holmes, Knocked out by a man over 40 years old, and knocked by a lightheavyweight. Let's be real the longer Cooney is away from the ring the better he gets. Jerry Quarry was a legitimate contender and a very good fighter, with a little luck he could have been champion. Cooney and Bobick had a lot of luck because they have people believing that they were very good fighters. George Chuvalo now he was a legitimate contender and he beat some good fighters in their heydays. That is why it saddens me when people lump Quarry and Chuvalo with the likes of Cooney and Bobick.


Johnny Q JohnQW@yahoo.com Sun Nov 11 19:46:24 PST 2001

Long as we're giving Bobick some dues, not only did he defeat Holmes in the Olympic trials, but one of the reasons his defeat by Stevenson was a surprise was because Bobick had beaten Stevenson a year or two earlier in international competition. Bobick's loss to Norton was a career ender more for publicity reasons than physical talent. Had be been a minority, it would have been no big deal, and he might have worked his way up again. Was Shavers finished after the Quarry fight? Unfortunately the racist slamming the press gave him after the Norton ruined him as a potential draw. Bobick was a very good fighter, with a stellar amateur record. He has a great record as a pro, and above all, was smart enough to quit when it was time. I hope he's living well.


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Sun Nov 11 18:29:01 PST 2001

Didn't Bobick also defeat Jody Ballard by KO? Ballard wasn't a great fighter, but he was game and stood in with some of the best talent of the era. I'd take Spinks by knockout in a slugfest and Holyfield by knockout in a fairly easy fight.


Jonathan White hurricane861@hotmail.com Sun Nov 11 16:59:10 PST 2001

First off, I wanted to apologize for the bobick Comment. I suppose I was misinformed about him. And I also wanted to thank you for enlightening me, Mr. Appel. you obviously have a vast knowledge of the fight game. I was impressed you could come upwith the Bobick information on the spot. If I have a question, I know where to go. thanks again.


joe Krause sadmspats@yahoo.com Sun Nov 11 13:31:05 PST 2001

Holyfield would be able to out-muscle Mildenberger and would win by 6th round KO. Folley would out-slick Spinks until Leon was in desperation mode. Then Folley would knock Leon down late before winning a good decision.


JIMMY DORSEY RONNYRAINS@yAHOO.COM Sun Nov 11 12:26:25 PST 2001

KENT:(CURLY,OF OUR FEARLESS LEADERS CLUB!)I THINK YUR LETTER TO JONATHAN ON DUANE BOBICK,WAS WELL WRITTEN AND EXTREMLY TRUE, AS FAR AS "RING MAGAZINE" WOULD BE CONCERNED WAS A CLASS III,HEAVYWEIGHT, WHICH IS JUST USUALLY OUTSIDE THEY TOP TEN BUT WORLD CLASS FOR SURE,and WAS RATED #4 IN THE WORLD BEFORE HIS WIPEOUT VS KENNY NORTON IN 77'.SAN DIEGO PROMOTER MICKEY DAVIES WANTED QUARRY-BOBICK,AND I ALWAYS WONDERED, JERRY OBVIOUSLY MORE WORLD CLASS HEAVY,WOULD KAYO BOBICK OR WOULD YOUTH BE SERVED ON BOBICK'S PART (SAY LOU NOVA-MAX BAER SCENERIO). I ASKED MIKE QUARRY AND HE SAID JERRY FOR SURE, YOU ARE RIGHT KENT, NOT NEAR AS GOOD AS HIS RECORD, BUT A CLASS ACT AS WELL-DUANE BOBICK. P.S. DUANE NEVER BEAT A TOP TEN CURRENT FIGHTER,HIS BEST WINS WERE YOUNG SANFORD HOUPE,SCOTT LEDOUX (TWICE) BUNNY JOHNSON,CHUCK WEPNER,LARRY MIDDLETON,RANDY NEUMANN AND PEDRO AGOSTO, HE WAS STOPPED ON A CUT VS GEORGE CHAPLIN HIS LAST BOUT.


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Sun Nov 11 08:23:06 PST 2001

Sorry folks about posting so many times in a row but I forgot to give my results for the tournament. I pick Holyfield by 9th round kayo over Mildenberger and Folly by decision over Leon Spinks.


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Sun Nov 11 08:14:37 PST 2001

Thanks Mr. Jimmy, that is close enough for my purposes regarding the body cast. After I read the post that says Bentham cut Jerry before the third round, I went and watched the third round a couple of times on my VCR and I didn't notice any bleeding until near the end of the round where Jerry is charging into Ali and he is hit by a punch and/or a clash of their heads. Also it seems that Jerry himself would have noticed he was cut in the corner and he would have told someone afterwards about it. Even if he told the people he confided in to keep quiet about it. Finally I don't see anyway that Jimmy standing five feet from him could have not noticed a cut had one occured earlier than towards the end of the third round.


Mr. Jimmy tjqf Sun Nov 11 04:55:24 PST 2001

Jerry was in the body cast for about 2 months. I don't remember just how long. I'm also agreeing that Jerry was not cut in his corner.


Kent oriononside@aol.com Sat Nov 10 14:35:00 PST 2001

Mr. Jimmy, you didn't answer my question about how long Jerry was in the body cast after the Ellis fight. I am working on an article that is not directly about Jerry but I make referrence to his broken back and while how long he was in the cast isn't completely crucial information, it would be helpful. thanks


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Sat Nov 10 14:26:17 PST 2001

Jonathan: You would have a hard time picking a better hero than Jerry. You are right, he was one of the better fighters during a period of a lot of talent in the heavyweight division. I wouldn't be insulted by someone calling you Bobick. Duane Bobick was a good, strong fighter who punched hard. He had one very major flaw, and that is he couldn't take a punch very well. Bobick had a professional record of 48 wins, 4 losses, 42 by knockout. All four of his losses were by knockout. He also defeated Larry Holmes, future heavyweight champion of the world, in the amatuers and he represtented the United States in the Olympic games only to lose to Teofelio Stevenson of Cuba, one of the greatest amatuer fighters of all time, who was if I remember correctly, a four time Olympic gold medalist. I doubt if any of the fighters who laugh and make fun of Bobick could ever hope to defeat Bobick, a world class main event fighter and when one of them makes the United States Olympic team, than maybe they can talk a good game. Until they do, they shoudn't say anything about Bobick.


Jonathan White hurricane861@hotmail.com Sat Nov 10 10:50:47 PST 2001

Hey everyone. Let me open up by saying that I'm a big fan of Jerry Quarry, even though I was'nt born yet during the generation. I'm actually an amateur fighter, and I first heard about Quarry when I was relatively new, after a sparring session when someone related my style to his. Being the only serious white fighter in my gym, I was a good target for hecklers. I was insulted when someone unfairly called me say, Duane Bobick, but after I did some research, I found out that they had complimented me when relating my style to Quarry's. Cause Quarry was not only a great white fighter, but also one of the greatest fighters of that era. I just wanted to say Jerry is my hero, and not simply because of our superficial similarities. I admire his heart and determination, not to mention his exceptional talents. God Bless you, Quarry family. Jerry's my inspiration.


Jonathan White hurricane861@hotmail.com3 Sat Nov 10 10:50:39 PST 2001

Hey everyone. Let me open up by saying that I'm a big fan of Jerry Quarry, even though I was'nt born yet during the generation. I'm actually an amateur fighter, and I first heard about Quarry when I was relatively new, after a sparring session when someone related my style to his. Being the only serious white fighter in my gym, I was a good target for hecklers. I was insulted when someone unfairly called me say, Duane Bobick, but after I did some research, I found out that they had complimented me when relating my style to Quarry's. Cause Quarry was not only a great white fighter, but also one of the greatest fighters of that era. I just wanted to say Jerry is my hero, and not simply because of our superficial similarities. I admire his heart and determination, not to mention his exceptional talents. God Bless you, Quarry family. Jerry's my inspiration.


Bob Bumbera renfbera@aol.com Sat Nov 10 05:55:00 PST 2001

Jerry was cut about 1:45-2:15 into the third round with an Ali right. There is no way Jerry could have been cut in the corner then fight almost one full round without bleeding. Ali new Jerry had scar tissue around his eyes, and,if you look at the fight you will see Ali cuffing and lacing Jerry. Ali would also twist his punches just as they hit. If Jerry was cut in the corner, even a light cut, the blood would be flowing after the first couple of jabs. Just my opinion.


Mr. Jimmy tjqf Fri Nov 9 20:03:15 PST 2001

Ok here goes. Two weeks ago one of our oldest friends. he trained us when we were kids, told me that Jerry was cut in his corner in the first Ali fight. Two days later, it was repeated to me by Jerry's first wife Kathy. She said Teddy broke down and soke the words that he cut Jerry because of all the threats on his life if Ali lost. This is hard for me to believe, I worked the corner, how could this have happened and me not see it. I can pick out the point where Jerry starts bleeding and it's well into the 2nd minute of the 3rd round. How could a cut not bleed for two minutes, if Jerry was cut going into the 3rd. I will say this, I witnessed the Dr. stitching Jerry up and the cut was so clean and even. I've always felt that Jerry was cut by a head but and I can point it out.


JQ TJQF Fri Nov 9 18:42:14 PST 2001

1st. Patterson


James Quarry boxerquarry@netscape.net Fri Nov 9 18:40:45 PST 2001

Seems to me Teddy worked Jerry's corner in the first fight. Only as a cut man. I really not quite sure, I'll check it out and get back to you. It really amazes me that when fan talk about Jerry, they say how nice Jerry was to take time out for them. I remember a friend of our family Dale Smith was having dinner with Jerry at some restuarant and fans kept coming up to the table for Jerry's autograph. Dale asked Jerry, didn't that bother him with these people kept coming up to the table? Jerry replied, "It would bother me if they stopped" It made Jerry's life worthwhile to him! In the end, if someone recognized him, it really made his day. He would say, "I still got it" He loved being a "Hero"


Bob Bumbera renfbera@aol.com Fri Nov 9 18:08:28 PST 2001

I know, I know. Bad proof reading. Sorry Mr Folley wherever you are. Didn't Jerry wear white trunks vs Stanford Harris. Maybe not, it was a long time ago. This site brings back so many memories. I remember before the second Ali fight wanting Jerry to knock him out. Man Ali was so good. He gave it to you then just took it away. In the blink of an eye. Anyway thanks.


Bob Bumbera renfbera@aol.com Fri Nov 9 18:07:26 PST 2001

I know, I know. Bad proof reading. Sorry Mr Folley wherever you are. Didn't Jerry wear white trunks vs Stanford Harris. Maybe not, it was a long time ago. This site brings back so many memories. I remember before the second Ali fight wanting Jerry to knock him out. Man Ali was so good. He gave it to you then just took it away. In the blink of an eye. Anyway thanks.


Bob Bumbera renfbera@aol.com Fri Nov 9 17:38:24 PST 2001

Holyfield over Mildenberger in 7. Evander presses Karl every round with a good body attack,then combinations to the head. Mildenberger starts holding and wrestling in the 4th to keep Holifield off. A head butt by Holyfield opens a cut over Karls right eye. Evander is also warned for low blows. The ref stops it 2:08 of the 7th. Folly over Spinks. Leon comes out like a ball of fire but is quickly snuffed out by Folly's great boxing skill. Zora's pinpiont punching shakes Spinks up several times. Spinks goes down in the 8th, Zora plays it safe, boxing to a 12 round decision.


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Fri Nov 9 11:52:53 PST 2001

James: I have heard that Jerry was in a body cast after the Ellis fight when the doctors discovered he had a broken back. How long was he in the cast?


BEN SWAAB ben.swaab@nordstrom.com`` Fri Nov 9 11:49:26 PST 2001

James Q You can't tease us that way! Did it have to do with the cut that Jerry received in the Ali fight. I have another memory of Jerry, when I was 12, I lived in Seattle and Jerry was in there in late June 1970. He was there with Mike Quarry and George Foreman to see the George Chuvalo vs Charlie Reno fight, this was right after he stopped Mac Foster in 6th round. He was hoping to get a rematch with Chuvalo, if Chuvalo got passed Foreman in August of 1970. This was my first live boxing event, can you imagine to see all four top contenders! All of them were so nice and took there time to talk to a 12 year old kid, Jerry talked to me for about 5 minutes and answered every question. I remember telling him to keep on wearing the white trunks because I thought that might of brought him luck....come to think of it,it was the only time he wore white trunks in his career. James how long was Teddy Bentham Jerry trainer, and what kind of a relationship did they have togther. James if you get a chance email me your address and I'll send you some ties. James your doing a great job! It's always great to listen to some great storys.


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Fri Nov 9 10:58:34 PST 2001

That is Foreman and Dokes through...tonights two matches are - All time great Evander Holyfield vs Karl Mildenberger...second match - Zora Folley vs Leon Spinks - results by Monday....


James Quarry TJQF Thu Nov 8 18:26:10 PST 2001

I did not work Jerry's corner in the Frazier fight. Jerry was supposed to box Frazier for the first five rounds. That was the plan. However, at noon the days of the fight at a press conference, The Press called Jerry a coward by the way he fought Ellis. Jerry made up his mind to go after Frazier from the opening bell. Like Big George Foreman says, If Jerry would have fought Ellis like he did Frazier, things would have turned out a whole lot different. But, he didn't. Kent don't worry about it. It's cool. Now that all this has been brought up again. I do remember some complaints. To long ago to remember exactly. Jerry's first fight with Ali was the biggest event in boxing to that date. the only one bigger was the first Ali, Frazier. The return of the champ, Atlanta, Georga It was bigger than the Superbowl. Some day I'll tell the story about that night through my eyes. I worked the corner that night also. A big mystery has evolved. A rumor!


Kent orion, etc. Thu Nov 8 17:40:27 PST 2001

Jimmy Q. and Ben: Wow! I didn't mean to stir up controversy regarding Mike's fight against Rossman. Someone had asked me a question and I didn't know the answer and I thought Jimmy might know something about it. I guess my question is, doesn't a corner inspect the gloves of an opponent prior to a bout? It seems that any improprieties would have been found during this inpection. Jimmy D: the one opponent I always wanted Jerry to get in the ring with was Bob Foster. Foster always had trouble when he stepped up a division against heayweights and I think it likely that Jerry wuuld have avenged Mike's knockout loss against Foster.


BEN SWAAB ben.swaab@nordstrom .com Thu Nov 8 15:56:12 PST 2001

Jimmy, Mike Quarry told me about three years ago he felt that the Rossman camp had taken out some padding in the gloves. Just like Billy Collins fight against Luis Resto, he wanted to know if somthing still could be done about it, but this happen so long ago. I remember the fight, it was before the Norton vs Bobick in Madison Square Garden, the shots that Mike was taking were hard and hurting him everytime they landed. I often wondered myself because there first two fight were pretty even. I remember feeling so bad for him.... I thought he had a good chance of out boxing Rossman, Mike also said that Rossman was rude and cocky. But saying all that I don't think Mike Rossman had a ticker problem, I have the Rossman vs Braxton fight and Mike did hang in there, but Braxton was in his prime and Mike just coundn't take those hard shot to the temple. James Quarry were you in Jerrys corner for the 1rst Frazier fight,and was there a time in the corner when Teddy or your father asked him to boxed. Was that fight in your opinion bigger then the 1rst Ali fight.It would be great to get some insight on what was going on in the corner. I hope someday you write a book on Jerry's life and maybe approach HBO on his life story simaliar to Sonny Liston, I know that Larry Merchant was a fan of Jerry.I have a copy of the New York Post the day before the first Frazier fight and Larry Merchant wrote a positive article on Jerry. Front page of the Post in 69 of June was the death of Judy Garland.


JIMMY DORSEY RONNYRAINS@YAHOO.COM Thu Nov 8 14:18:52 PST 2001

KENT: I HAVE NOT HEARD OF THEY TORN GLOVE MIKE QUARRY VS MIKE ROSSMAN III, I KNOW MIKE NIXON RECEIVED AN NO.# 14 world rating for beating Rossman although ko'd in a return at they DUNES HOTEL IN 'VEGAS, I KINDA THINK OLE ROSSMAN HAD SORT OF A TICKER PROBLEM, GALINDEZ II and BRAXTON COME TO MIND IF MIKE Q WAS A PUNCHER HE'D HAVE BEATEN ROSSMAN ALL 3, AND ROSMMAN DID HAVE LOADS OF TALENT THOUGH, AND I WOULD HAVE LOVED IT HAD HE EVER BEEN IN THE RING WITH JERRY HA HA , KNUCK KNUCK KNUCK!


Bob Bumbera renfbera@AOL.com Wed Nov 7 17:10:14 PST 2001

Dokes KO's Bruno in the 8th round. Dokes is faster and a harder puncher, he also moves better than the stand up style of Bruno, though Bruno is good enough to last 8 rounds, the ref stops it after an unanswerd 5 punch combination. Foreman in 7. Foreman's body attack is brutal. toward the end or the 6th round, Big George'looping hooks are lifting the 207 pound Terrell off his feet. Terell takes the early rounds with a strong jab, but Foreman is just too strong, winning by TKO.


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Wed Nov 7 16:16:03 PST 2001

I believe Foreman would have real trouble with the 'Octopus'. After dominating the early rounds, Foreman will begin to tire as Terrell fights back but a sudden punch will render Ernie senseless and George pounds on him 'till the referee halts the proceedings late in the 9th round. In the secound bout it would be a close one but Dokes in his prime would have a little too much quality in his work and edge out a unanimous decision over Bruno and sending him down in the last round...(sorry Frank !)


James Quarry boxerquarry@netscape.net Wed Nov 7 11:33:37 PST 2001

I never heard anything about a cut or torn glove in the Rossman fight. I know that Mike never really forgave Jerry for stopping the fight. Michael pleaded with Jerry not to stop it. The cut was just to bad to let the fight to go on.


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Wed Nov 7 05:46:18 PST 2001

Mr. Jimmy: Someone aaked me if I knew anything about your brother Mike claiming that Mike Rossman had a torn glove in their third fight and this is what caused the severe cut and his loss. I have never heard that Mike Q. has ever said this. Is there any truth to this? Has Mike or Jerry ever said anything to you about the outcome of Rossman/M.Quarry 3 being questionable?


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Wed Nov 7 05:38:10 PST 2001

I see Bruno boxing well until the last round where he is ahead on all cards and he gets careless. Dokes needing a knockout to win gets it with a fast barrage of at least 15 unaswered punches. Bruno doesn't repond to the referee's satisfaction and despite his corner and his protests, the verdict stands as Dokes by twelve round TKO. I think Terrell would give Foreman some difficulty early but fall in round five, Foreman is the kayo winner.


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Tue Nov 6 16:57:57 PST 2001

Foreman by 3rd round KO sounds good to me. It's a weird situation, because Kenny Norton is clearly better better than Terrell, and Foreman took Norton out in 2---but for some reason, I think Terrell would make it to the 3rd before going down. I'd pick Dynamite Dokes to win a clear-cut decision over Bruno. Dokes wasn't a bad fighter at all---had a lot of talent, speed and was a smooth mover.


Joe Krause sadmspats@YAHOO.COM Tue Nov 6 12:30:41 PST 2001

Foreman would have trouble with Terrell's jab for about 2 round. Terrell would be intimidated I believe and not fight his best fight because of his fear. Foreman would pounce early in the 3rd round and deliver many shots to Terrell. Foreman would win by 3rd round knockout. Dokes and Bruno are two of the worst 5 participants. In a fight that is close Bruno lands a crushing right in the late stages of the 10th round to win via TKO 10. He will be smeared in the next round I'm sure.


Paul Maduros pama42@yahoo.com Tue Nov 6 10:56:12 PST 2001

Hey James, don't worry about it. You and Jerry looked totaly cool, Jerry appeared super confident and he fought like it.


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Tue Nov 6 07:06:22 PST 2001

So Patterson goes through - 3 votes to 1 and one draw - Shavers 5 votes to nil....next draw we have all time great George Foreman against Ernie Terrell while in the secound bout of the night Frank Bruno meets Michael Dokes...results by Friday...Evren


James Quarry boxerquarry@netscape.net Mon Nov 5 13:48:21 PST 2001

Hi Ron, yeas that was me working in Jerry's corner against Big Mack Foster. I thought I was cool with my Conway Twitty hair cut, at the time anyway, I look back on it now and it's embarrasing. I was having a good time anyway. Everytime I see that fight and myself, it gives me a good laugh. When I see Jerry performance against Foster it was brilliant. Jerry was supposed to be a stepping stone for Foster. We had a surprize for them.


JIMMY DORSEY RONNYRAINS@YAHOO.COM Mon Nov 5 13:12:08 PST 2001

march 1975 RING MAGAZINE: San Diego-"Irish" Mike NIXON SEEMED WELL ON HIS WAY TO A 10 ROUND DECISION OVER HOME TOWNER DAVE "SUGAR" LOVE. WHEN NIXON DECKED LOVE WITH A BODY BLOW IN THE 9TH ROUND,WHICH LOVE SAID WAS LOW, AND HE WAS UNABLE TO CONTINUE. DR. WILLIAM LUNGREEN RULED LOVE WAS UNABLE TO CONTINUE, AND COMISSION OFFICIAL JOE OLMOS CALLED THE BOUT A "no Contest!" nov.5th today 24 yrs ago Quarry-zanon "live".


Kent orion etc Sun Nov 4 18:32:57 PST 2001

Evren, I will be happy to record fights for you and send them to you. I tried to E-mail you back but somehow it didn't go through


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Sun Nov 4 14:46:49 PST 2001

For a non title we are gonna have to say 12 rounds because of the quality of the opposition - 15 rounds when we get to the last 16...a draw is fine as the final vote will totted up.


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Sun Nov 4 11:44:27 PST 2001

So what is the answer on the number of rounds the fights go in the tournament? Is it 10,12, or 15? I am sticking to my decision that Patterson verses Weaver is scored a draw as I see Patterson out boxing Weaver most rounds but going down in multiple rounds to even up the score cards.


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Sun Nov 4 10:26:58 PST 2001

In a scintillating fight it is Weavers power against the combination punching Pattterson who takes his lumps but comes back to stop Weaver in the 9th round with a tremendous barrage as Weavers steam runs out. Again, Shavers scores a devastating 2nd round kayo over a game but outgunned Nino Valdes who gives his all in the first but gets nailed hard !


Joe Krause sadmspats@yahoo.com Sun Nov 4 08:59:01 PST 2001

Shavers would come out real fast and land some real good shots. Valdes also would come out firing. Shavers superior technique would allow him to get home a devastating right cross after feinting with a left to the body. Valdes would get up and then fall over KO 2:28 round 1 Shavers. Weaver would knock Patterson down, that is for sure. Patterson would be ahead on the scorecards when Weaver would land a huge punch that Patterson can not elude. Patterson would wobble up at the count of 8 and escape and win a close unanimous decision. 96-65, 97-94, 96-94


MIKE M. COALCRACKER53PA.@AOL.COM Sat Nov 3 21:19:26 PST 2001

I WAS 15 YEARS OLD WHEN THE HEAVYWEIGHT ELIM TOURNAMENT WAS STAGED.I REALLY DIDNT FOLLOW BOXING UNTIL I WATCHED JERRY QUARRY FIGHT BUSTER MATHIS,BUT I REALLY BECAME A QUARRY FANATIC WHEN JERRY FOUGHT SMOKING JOE FRAZIER AT MSG..THE FIRST CLOSED CIRCUIT FIGHT I EVER WENT TO.STILL TO THIS DAY,THAT FIGHT WAS ONE OF THE BEST MATCHES I EVER SAW.FROM THAT FIGHT ON I FOLLOWED EVERYTHING JERRY QUARRY.A FEW FRIENDS AND I WENT TO NY AND SAW QUARRY FOSTER FIGHT WHICH JERRY WON,WHAT A HAPPY RIDE HOME TO PHILLY FOR US THAT NIGHT.HOWEVER JERRY CAME ALONG THE SAME TIME AS PROBABLY 2 OF THE BEST HEAVYWEIGHTS OF ALL TIME,FRAZIER AND ALI,(SAW FRAZIER ALI 1 AT THE GARDEN ALSO,WHAT A NIGHT THAT WAS)JERRY JUST HAD A STYLE AND SWAGGER THAT WAS SO SMOOTH BUT PERHAPS THE BIGGEST TRAIT ABOUT HIM I ADMIRED WAS THE SIZE OF HIS HEART.IT WAS LIKE RIDING A ROLLER COASTER FOLLOWING HIS CAREER,THE WINS WERE HUGE,THE LOSSES PAINFUL.I WOULD HAVE LOVED TO HAVE MET HIM AND SHAKEN HIS HAND BUT,PERHAPS THE NEXT LIFE. I GREW UP WITH MANY SPORTS HEROES, WILLIE MAYS, JOE NAMATH, BOBBY CLARKE, JOHN ELWAY, JERRY QUARRY... THEY WERE MY HEROES AS A KID,THEY STILL ARE MY HEROES AND I CAN ONLY HOPE THAT IM A BETTER PERSON FOR ADMIRING THEM AS MUCH AS I DID AND STILL DO. I REALLY HAVE LOST INTEREST IN THE HEAVYWEIGHTS OF TODAY BECAUSE NONE WITH THE EXCEPTION OF EVANDER AND I HATE TO SAY IT THAT TYSON GUY,COULD MATCH UP WITH THE HEAVYWEIGHTS OF THE LATE 60S AND EARLY 70S,TRULY THAT WAS THE GOLDEN AGE OF THE HEAVYWEIGHT DIVISION AND JERRY QUARRY WAS A HELL OF A BIG PART OF IT.GOD BLESS YOU JERRY,YOU WERE THE BEST IN MY BOOK..MIKE M.PHILLY.


Bob Bumbera renfbera@AOL.com Sat Nov 3 20:56:54 PST 2001

Shavers KO's Valdez in two with barrage of punches,sending Valdez through the ropes. Valdez keeps Shavers at bay until the sudden end with some good combinations. Patterson wins a split decision over Weaver. Patterson is knocked down by a left hook in the fifth, and staggerd several more times during the fight but by the twelveth round, Weaver's right eye is closed by Floyd's leaping hooks and although he continues to press the action, Weaver's one punch at a time headhunting is no match for Floyd's boxing skill


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Sat Nov 3 18:30:23 PST 2001

I hate to throw a "monkeywrench" into the works, but the way I see the Patterson verses Weaver fight is a draw, 141 to 141 over 15 rounds (I am assuming for the tournament that the fights are going 15 rounds and not 12). I give 9 rounds to Patterson and 6 to Weaver but Weaver scores 3 knockdowns in three different rounds for three 10 to 8 rounds under the ten point must system. My scores add up to a draw. In the other fight, I pick Shavers by third round knockout over Valdez.


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Sat Nov 3 04:11:58 PST 2001

Shavers, in his prime, takes out Valdes in the first round. Shavers raw punching power, coupled with the patience he learned in the later 70's would be way too much for Valdes to handle. Weaver-Patterson would be one of the most interesting fights of the tournament thus far. Patterson would use his superior boxing skills to pile up an impressive lead over Weaver. But late in the fight, Weaver, who would still be fresh (Patterson's lack of punching power would allow Weaver to still be dangerous) would land a crushing combination on Patterson, sending Patterson down. A wobbly Patterson would beat the count, but with almost two minutes left in the round, the revitalized Weaver would land more bombs, putting Patterson down again. Patterson might rise one more time, but after taking another couple mammoth Weaver punches, the fight would be stopped. Weaver, behind on all three score cards, wins by TKO.


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Sat Nov 3 01:22:44 PST 2001

Louis and Schmelling go through....next draw...In the red corner we have 'Hercules' Mike Weaver and in the blue corner- Floyd Patterson. In the second fight of the night murderous punching Earnie Sahvers meets Cuban Nino Valdes...results by Tuesday..thanks..Evren


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Fri Nov 2 16:11:46 PST 2001

Welcome Arnold and hope you write again. This is a great page for remembering Jerry and Mike Quarry's boxing accomplishments and it also serves to raise awareness of James Quarry's efforts to find out more about boxing related head trauma---to make the sport safer and assist in treating injured boxers. Bobi Marie sounds like she's ready and willing to carry the torch! Stay out of her way!


Arnold D. Mackey Boxarn51@aol.com Thu Nov 1 19:43:34 PST 2001

As a former Boxing Champion myself,I wish to extend my sorrow concerning the passing away of a great fighter,Jerry Quarry. I cherish the memories of Quarry beating Buster Mathis,Ron Lyle,Earnie Shavers,Mac Foster,and many others! The Jerry Quarry Boxing Site is a credit to all of you that were responsible for creating it as it awards the fistic accomplishments of one of the Greatest fighters of all-time,Jerry quarry! Thank you very much for doing it! I am a former Golden Gloves State Boxing Champion from Michigan in 1969-a former Marine Corps Base Boxing Champion at Camp Pendleton,Ca. in 1975-and a former Toughman Heavy-weight Boxing Champion at the Sports Arena in Jackson,Michigan in 1981. Jerry Quarry was always on my favorite fighters list! Sincerely,Arnold D. Mackey 11-01-01


On_MY_2nd_Million Ron@PTCtel.com Thu Nov 1 17:58:16 PST 2001

Hey, James....was that you working Jerry's corner in the Mac Foster Fight? What happened to your "Conway Twitty" hair doo (just kidding)? It was a great fight...it took Jerry 3 or 4 rounds to get going though - he didn't try to "swarm" his opponent too early as he did in the Joe Frazier I fight. Good Job. Ron


SABRINA QUARRY- PORTER SABRINALPORTER@AOL.COM Wed Oct 31 03:14:49 PST 2001

TALE OF THE TAPE.BOBI MARIE PORTER, GRAND NIECE OF JERRY AND GRANDDAUGHTER OF JIMMY.4 1/2 YEARS OLD, 75 POUNDS, 46 INCHES TALL, NO NECK AND POWER IN BOTH HANDS AND A WILL OF STEEL.SHES 4 YEARS OLD AND WEARS A SIZE 12 CLOTHES.TRAINING NOW AGAINST HER 8 YEAR OLD BROTHER AND 15 YEAR OLD STEP-BROTHER.LOOKING FOR OTHER OPPONENTS THAT AREN'T AFRAID...ANYBODY IN THE WEST PALM BEACH AREA EMAIL.


Sabrina Quarry-Porter sabrinalporter@aol.com Wed Oct 31 03:08:15 PST 2001

THE NEXT PERSON WITH QUARRY BLOOD IN THEM WILL BE BOMBIN BOBI PORTER.MR.JIMMY'S GRANDDAUGHTER.BUILT LIKE HER DADDY WITH FISTS OF IRON AND A PUNCH LIKE A MULE KICK.SHE'S IN TRAINING NOW AND SHE'S ONLY FOUR YEARS OLD.HAVE A GREAT DAY...


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Wed Oct 31 01:01:28 PST 2001

In a surprisingly good fight Cooper rocks Schmelling early as Max struggles with 'Enry's awkward style but towards the middle of the fight works him out and sends Cooper down for the count in round 7..In another tough struggle Mercer puts the brown bomber down early in furious trade. Louis weathers the storm to come back and rock Mercer in the middle/late rounds before winning a close but unanimous decision..


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Tue Oct 30 19:42:56 PST 2001

Louis, on the basis of speed and power, would pick apart Mercer and bring the bigger man down to size in a seventh round KO. Schmeling would cut up Cooper and score a mid round stoppage


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Tue Oct 30 17:31:16 PST 2001

Louis would win, but I don't think it would be easy. Mercer, on a good night, could give almost anyone fits. I think he would end up trading with Louis, going toe-to-toe in the middle rounds (like 6 or 7) and getting taken out by a mammoth Louis punch. But Louis would know he was in a fight. Louis would win most of the rounds, but all would be tough, and he'd finish with a solid KO. Mr.Schmeling would win by TKO over Cooper---C-U-T-S.


Joe Krause sadmspats@yahoo.com Tue Oct 30 13:40:54 PST 2001

Louis wins by easy decision


Joe Krause sadmspats@yahoo.com Tue Oct 30 13:39:31 PST 2001

Louis would pound on Mercer, but Mercer would withstand the punishment on the way to winning one round of ten. Schmeling was a pretty good precision puncher and Cooper would end up bleeding like a stuck pig. Cooper would win one round of the five fought before the referee would stop the fight. TKO cuts 6th round win for Schmelling


James Quarry TJQF Tue Oct 30 05:18:12 PST 2001

TJQF got involved with a charitable event for kids, called "The Battle of the Badges" The fire department vs the police department. Exibition boxing at its best. The show was held here at the Soboba Casino. My son Eric (37) put on a boxing ecibition for this cause. I worked his corner, along with Harold Tabor. Harold used to work in Jerry corner when we were kids. We have a video and a story line. Soon we will post it on our web page. I think this will be the last time anyone will see a Quarry fighting in the ring.


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Tue Oct 30 01:57:31 PST 2001

Well thats Holmes and Chuvalo through...next round....All time great Joe Louis meets Merciless Ray Mercer and in the second bout of the night Max Schmelling takes on Henry Cooper...votes by Friday...Evren


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Mon Oct 29 14:24:49 PST 2001

Hello Jimmy D. Yes I am still out here. I realize we probably overlooked Lou Nova, but it was hard to pick a field so we will probably stick with the fighters we have. I am taking a chance that some of my "old friends" don't follow me there (and I am using the term loosely!) and elsewhere, but I am writing for a couple of websites now. The main one is eastsideboxing.com. One of my articles features my interview with our fearless leader, James Q, which is still on the home page here at the Quarry site. My latest work is on the Eastside home page this week and it is a review of the Bronco Mckart verses Alex Bunema Jr. middleweight fight in Temecula Ca. I also have several other articles on the second page and in the archives. I hope everyone doesn't mind my making a plug, but realize that I am risking my old "pals" following me there. Another one of our regulars was also writing for Eastside but I will not let his idenity known. That is his choice to let everyone know or not.


JIMMY DORSEY RONNYRAINS@YAHOO.COM Mon Oct 29 10:23:11 PST 2001

DEAR JIMMY Q. (THE MOE OF OUR FEARLESS LEADERS CLUB!)MORRISON VS HOLMES, YES FOR SURE HOLMES, BUT DON'T U GUYS THINK HE WOULD HAVE GIVEN HOLMES A BETTER GO THAN SAY GERRY COONEY? MORRISON BEAT BETTER FIGHTER'S THAN GENTLEMAN GERRY! COONEY NEVER BEAT A TOP TENER, WHO WAS RANKED AT THE TIME. I DO LOVE HIS COMMERCIAL WHERE HE AND FOREMAN,NORTON ETC. GOT TOGETTHER, DO EVERYONE REMEMBER THE QUARRY BROTHERS MILLER LITE COMMERCIAL TITLED "SAVED BY THE BELL"?? A CLASSIC, AND I THINK JERRY QUARRY WOULD HAVE HAD A MUCH EASIER GO WITH LEON SPINKS, RATHER THAN MICHAEL, AND BEFORE I GET TOO WINDY HERE, "RING MAGAZINE". ALSO RATED JERRY OVER FOREMAN IN 1972 #2 CONTENDER. AND IT WAS SOLD JERRY BEAT 6 UNRANKED FIGHTERS BEFORE HIS SECOND WATERLOO WITH MUHAMMAD ALI, I KNOW FOR A FACT BRITISH COMMONWEALTH, AND EUROPEON CHAMPION JACK BODELL WAS RATED #8 AND MIDDLETON #7. I ALSO REMEMBER A VERY NERVOUS BRITISH ANNOUNCER, INTERVIEWING JERRY AND ASK HIM IF BODELL WAS ACKWARD TO FIGHT AND JERRY SAID "THAT HE FELL ACKWARDLY" YA ALL TAKE CARE NOW YOU HERE, HOW ABOUT A CALIFORNIA CHAMPIONSHIP PITTING JQ AGAINST THE "COSMIC MAN" LOU NOVA?


JIMMY DORSEY RONNYRAINS@YAHOO.COM Mon Oct 29 09:44:52 PST 2001

HEY YOU THUGS! WHERE IS LOU NOVA IN THIS 64 MAN TOURNAMENT? WHERE IS MY COSMIC PUNCH WHEN I NEED IT THE MOST? JUST JIVING YOU GUYS, BUT HE COULDV'E BEAT A FEW OF THE FIGHTER'S FOR SURE, ITS REALLY TOUGH TO CALL PARTICIPANTS, AS WELL AS THE 8-MAN TOURNAMENT THAT OUR MAN JQ WAS IN, IN 68'. JOE KINDA THRU A WRENCH IN TO THAT ONE, CAN YOU BELIEVE THEY WBA, LISTING JOE FRAZIER THEY NO.1 CONTENDER AND THEN NO.9 BECAUSE HE REFUSED THE TOURNAMENT, THATS WHY THEY ONLY REAL WORLD RATINGS, THE BEST THERE WAS, THE BEST THERE IS, AND THEY BEST THERE EVER WILL BE, YES YOU GUESSED IT "THE RING MAGAZINE" THEY ALSO RATED JERRY BETTER THAN THEY OTHER MAGS OF THAT TIME AND HE DAMN WELL DESERVED IT,(CURLY Q. LINK) KENT APPEL ARE YOU OUT THERE? KYNCK,KYNCK,KYNCK!!


Arnold D. Mackey Boxarn51@aol.com Sun Oct 28 21:52:56 PST 2001

Jerry Quarry was a great and talented fighter,indeed! I saw him whip former Heavyweight contender,Buster Mathis on National TV. Many,many,many superb victories were won by Jerry throughout his fabulous career! He was one of my favorite fighters! I am sorry that he died,particularly at such a young age! I am also sorry that he had problems functioning the last few years of his life! I remember Jerry beating up and comer Mac Foster and hard punching Earnie Shavers! These were tough customers! I felt he really beat Jimmy Ellis when they fought for the W.B.A, title too! Jerry Quarry was an inspiration to watch! Mike Quarry was a top-knotch fighter as well in the Light-heavyweight division! Both men were World-Class all the way!


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Sun Oct 28 11:58:22 PST 2001

Again, Larry Holmes to score a mid round stoppage over Morisson..Tommy is in the fight and Larry is wary of the left but just has that championship quality to batter morisson helpless in the 9th round - Holmes was ahead by a good margin though not a shut out. I pick Chuvalo to score a late round stoppage over Page after trailing slightly in the cards because of the Page jab.So toting up the scores we have Larry as a shut out at the moment - 5 votes to nil and in the other match Chuvalo ahead 3 votes to 2 in a very close encounter...1 day left


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Sun Oct 28 11:20:34 PST 2001

Holmes would pitch a shutout for about 7 rounds, then stop Morrison by TKO with a knockdown or two and a hard flurry that would end it. Page at his best would win a decision over Chuvalo. I'd pick Page in a tough, but not so close fight.


James Quarry TJQF Sun Oct 28 07:08:17 PST 2001

I think that Holmes would be to slick and hit to hard for Morrison. Chuvalo would be to strong and aggressive for Page. Homes would knock out Morrison. Chuvalo would win a decission over Page.


James Quarry TJQF Sun Oct 28 06:53:33 PST 2001

I pick Holmes and Chuvalo


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Sun Oct 28 05:37:36 PST 2001

In Holmes verses Morrison, I see Holmes opening up a huge cut over Morrison's eye and the fight being stopped in round six with Holmes the winner on a TKO. Morriosn does land some hard body shots throughout and lands a hard left hook that has Holmes holding on in round two, but he is unable to follow up. I am picking Chuvalo to win by an eighth round knockout over Page. Chuvalo uses a sustained body attack and Page's hands finally come down and Chuvalo scores two knockdowns in round eight and the ref. stops the contest after the second knockdown. Mr. Jimmy, you are welcome to join the tournament. All you do is vote on who you think will win between each pair of fighters. You have until tommorow to vote on Holmes verses Morrison and Chuvalo verses Page.


James Quarry TJQF Sun Oct 28 04:26:46 PST 2001

Hey every one. My pc is up and running. Sorry about missing the fight Kent. I missed the broadcast also. Jerry did have a knock scored against him in the first Patterson fight. Actually it was a slip that was scored a knock down. This is what caused Jerry to get a draw in the first fight. (Note) In this tournament that all is working on. Do you want me to contribute? If so, let me know what you want me to do?


Joe Krause sadmspats@yahoo.com Sat Oct 27 18:35:46 PDT 2001

Holmes would avoid anything Tommy threw and pick him apart on his way to an eight round stoppage. Holmes would have won every round up to that point. Page in shape and at his best happened so rarely thatt it's hard to say he would be for this fight. If he actually was he would control Chuvalo, but get roughed up along the way and lose some close rounds. Page 97-93, 97-93, 98-93


Kent orion etc. Sat Oct 27 18:08:41 PDT 2001

Mr. Jimmy: we missed you at the fight card in Temecula last night. A good time was had by all. I know you had more important things to take care of. I hope everything went well. I sent you an E-mail regarding this earlier this week but you may not have got it if your computer was locked up.


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Sat Oct 27 18:02:08 PDT 2001

Steve, there was an official knockdown of Jerry in the first Patterson fight. I believe without looking it up, it was in the seventh round. Many people though think that Jerry slipped, If that was the case, it probably would have given Jerry the victory in that first fight instead of a draw.


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Fri Oct 26 16:22:01 PDT 2001

Well guys..looks as though Quarry and Charles go through..I'll have to the draw for next round now as cannot tommorrow morning(to coincide with your time). Okay first fight of the night..In the blue corner all time great Larry Holmes takes on the Duke..Tommy Morrison. In the second bout of the night Greg Page from Louisville Kentucky meets the Canadian strongman - George Chuvalo. Results by monday please..anyone else feel free to vote...


steve dmmsrm@home.com Fri Oct 26 14:14:30 PDT 2001

Was Jerry Quarry knocked down in first Patterson fight?


Joe Krause sadmspats@yahoo.com Wed Oct 24 18:48:08 PDT 2001

Charles would pick Martin apart with his jab and quick combinations. Martin would hold his own, but win few rounds. Charles by unanimous decison. 99-92 98-92 99-91 Quarry and Spinks would be very close heading into the second half of the fight. Quarry would be cut, and Spinks would be guarding his body against Quarry's left hook to the body. In round 7 Jerry would throw his left hook to the body then follow it with one to the head. Spinks would be dazed and in trouble. A barrage would follow and Spinks would fall through the ropes and be counted out.


ANGELO funktron@yahoo.com Wed Oct 24 18:12:21 PDT 2001

Ezzard Charles by decision and Jerry Quarry by later round KO. Spinks would give him trouble early on, with that awkward style---but Spinks punches wouldn't hurt Jerry and even if Jerry was cut, he would start to turn the tide in the middle rounds and land bombs to KO Spinks in the late rounds. In the first round, I'd go along with the results---Cooney rather easily and Tucker by decision.


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Wed Oct 24 17:03:44 PDT 2001

Ezzard Charles was a master boxer with a stinging punch..I believe he would stop Leotis in the later rounds with Martin in no position to continue due to taking too much punishment and severe bruises and cuts.. In the second fight I just pick Jerry to secure a last round stoppage in a similar fashion to the Spencer fight only much closer...


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Wed Oct 24 14:06:11 PDT 2001

I pick in the nexy two fights, Charles by unamimous decision over Martin because of his speed and boxing ablility and Jerry by seventh round knockout over M.Spinks because of his advantage in strength and his ablility to take a punch.


James Quarry TJQF Wed Oct 24 11:10:00 PDT 2001

Information, my computer is down and all locked up. soom I hope to have it fixed. Currently I am using my company lap top. Looks like all of you are having a good time with your tournament.


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Wed Oct 24 01:25:51 PDT 2001

Okay..Bonavena and Carnera are out...on to the next two fights...All time great Ezzard Charles will take on Leotis Martin and in the second fight of the night..Jerry Quarry takes on Michael Spinks - results by Friday please..Evren


Kent Appel oriononsidje@aol.com Tue Oct 23 18:49:01 PDT 2001

Come on guys, only three of us voted? I hope we can do better than that in the next round! To those who may not know what I am talking about, we are having an all time heavyweight tournament featuring 64 of the best fighters from about 1930 to the present. To my old friend Paul, at the time that there was talk of a Foreman verses Quarry fight, Jerry weighed in the 200 to 205 range. From 1973 onward he was always at least 200 pounds as he should have been except for the second Frazier fight in which he was about 197 if memory serves me. He didn't appear to have his normal strengtk in that fught. Jerry was about 195 early in his career.


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Tue Oct 23 16:36:00 PDT 2001

Well so far it is 3-0 for tucker and 3-0 for cooney - I will post results in the morning and draw the next round - one of which will be an all time great..Evren


Paul Maduros pama42@yahoo.com Tue Oct 23 12:03:35 PDT 2001

To me the Jerry's fight against Lyle showed that if Jerry came into a Foreman fight trained at that level, yes he stood a good chance of an upset. Even though we now know that they were not really in the same weight class. At the time the fight could have been made. I've said it before that you just can't ask more from a 195lb man than what Jerry gave, AND YOU CAN BELIEVE JERRY GAVE IT ALL!!


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Sun Oct 21 09:46:55 PDT 2001

In a fight that turns to a brawl late in the fight Tucker manages to stave off a rushing Bonavena and holds on for a close but Unanimous decision. In the second fight of the night Gerry has trouble with a big guy who matches up to him in size..the two are close but the decision falls in favour of Cooney by virtue of an earlier round knockdown..


Joe Krause sadmspats@yahoo.com Sun Oct 21 07:16:15 PDT 2001

Tucker wins by unanimous decision over 10 rounds. Scores are 97-94, 98-93, 97-93. Tucker keeps Bonavena at range with his jab and uses effective movement to evade Oscar's bull charges. In a fight filled with 8 knockdowns Cooney finally finishes Carnera in the 9th round with a left hook to the temple. Cooney was slightly ahead at the time of the stoppage. Cooney was floored 4 times and Carnera 5. These were clearly two of the weakest participants, but Gerry still seems to be able to avoid good fighters on his way to the top!!


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Sat Oct 20 20:01:37 PDT 2001

I think we should stick with professionals so Stevenson isn't in. Bonevena vs Tucker, wow this is a tough call but I will have to say, Tucker by decision. Cooney vs. Canera, I say, Cooney by fifth round knockout.


charles anderson ctjjandfam@aol.com Sat Oct 20 18:30:34 PDT 2001

is this tournament open to all the best heavyweights? if so how about teo stevenson. i bet he would do very well. jerry's still my favorite. any comments?


Benjamin Crisp benjaminbcrisp@hotmail.com Sat Oct 20 17:59:41 PDT 2001

Yes , I think that you would have to have to rate Jerry Quarry at the top 10 of the heavyweight division , in any era . To me Jerry Quarry was an anomaly; because on any given night, Jerry could have beaten any heavyweight champion who ever lived . Maybe this is why his image has stood the test of time for so long. We all saw what he could do , and we are still in awe of it .


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Sat Oct 20 16:15:39 PDT 2001

2nd fight of the night....in the red corner.....'Gentleman' Gerry Cooney ! His opponent in the blue corner....Primo Carnera !!


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Sat Oct 20 16:12:22 PDT 2001

Okay - The first draw..In the red corner....Oscar 'Ringo' Bonavena..in the blue corner...Tony 'TNT' Tucker.


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Sat Oct 20 14:51:31 PDT 2001

Yes because McCall cried in the ring in the middle of a fight for no apparent reason, he is out. You are right Jimmy D., I hate to see a grown man cry also--KNUCK! KNUNCK! KNUNCK! A cry guy is a wise guy.


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Sat Oct 20 12:01:59 PDT 2001

Okay..Mcall out and we'll have Jimmy Ellis in place - I think that is what it amounted to. I'll list the 64 contestants and start a draw at Midnight my time - should be 1600 in West Coast. 2 fights to get things moving-try to opst results by Tuesday night. Hope this is okay... Evren


JIMMY DORSEY RONNYRAINS@YAHOO.COM Sat Oct 20 11:00:55 PDT 2001

HOW ABOUT LEAVING, MILDE AND MR. SNIPES IN AND KICK McCALL OUT? BESIDES I HATE TO SEE A GROWN MAN CRY!


EVREN Evren@btinternet.com Sat Oct 20 00:15:13 PDT 2001

Snipes in Mildenberger out....how do you feel about that Joe?


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Fri Oct 19 18:23:53 PDT 2001

I don't know that I ever saw Mildenberger fight---I've just read about his bouts. I did see Snipes fight---and he was decent. He had a masterpiece going against Holmes until he got tripped up toward the end. I say leave Mr. Snipes in.


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Fri Oct 19 16:23:41 PDT 2001

Yes Snipes did knock Holmes down but his other acomplishment was a very disputed decsion over Coetzee in which Coetzee knocked Snipes down twice and probably won six or seven out of ten rounds in most people's view (except the judges!). So with at least six rounds, with two 10-8 rounds for Coetzee, Coetzee was a clear winner. Martin on the other hand defeated Sonny Liston even if Sonny was over the hill, that is still a worthy acomplishment. My question is does Karl Mildenberger deserve to be in the tournament more than Snipes?


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Fri Oct 19 15:26:01 PDT 2001

Agreed..


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Fri Oct 19 15:24:19 PDT 2001

Agreed..


Joe Krause sadmspats@yahoo.com Fri Oct 19 14:42:54 PDT 2001

Renaldo Snipes out and Leotis Martin back in.


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Fri Oct 19 13:00:14 PDT 2001

Jimmy Ellis to replace Leotis Martin...sorry Leotis ! Just got to get 'round THE MATTER OF THE BEST NOT FACING EACH OTHER IN 1ST ROUND. Perhaps tHE accepted all time top 10'ers can go into a seperate hat so they would'nt be drawn against one another...ALI,FRAZIER,FOREMAN,HOLMES,LOUIS,MARCIANO,TYSON,BOWE, LEWIS,CHARLES - AFTER THE FIRST ROUND THEN FREE FOR ALL. I THINK WE SHOULD START THIS SOON.


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Fri Oct 19 06:14:19 PDT 2001

Yes Berbick was a limmited fighter but he was breifly a champmion so he belongs in the tourney. He was the first title defense opponent to last the distance with an in prime Larry Holmes


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Fri Oct 19 04:29:25 PDT 2001

I could see Ellis replacing Trevor Berbick---though I'd have to go back and review the list again.


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Fri Oct 19 00:19:19 PDT 2001

I forgot Ellis - we'll definitely have him in - I'll se who is best to replace..maybe Quarry...just kidding ! I do think that having an all time great against a lesser fighter sometimes makes it more interesting..but if you feel it's better that way then we'll discuss it - mail me on home address Kent. Evren


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Thu Oct 18 16:22:20 PDT 2001

Evren, what no Jimmy Ellis? I am not sure who he should replace but he deserves to be in the tournament. Also as I proposed, the all time greats like Ali, Louis, Marciano, etc, should be given a bye round (walkover) where they meet the winners of the first round bouts in the second round. I also think we should analyze or rank the fighters going into the tournament and come up with match ups where the higher ranked fighters fight lower ranked fighters at least in the first round. Picking names out of a hat is too arbitrary


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Thu Oct 18 11:24:14 PDT 2001

Hi Guys - here are my proposed 64 fighters - if any of you want to see any removed and replaced with anyone else - post and we can change. I think the best way to do this is if I draw two fighters from a hat the post what the match is on this site - all of us will have three days to give our opinion on who will win - the winner goes through the loser goes out - if the decision after toting up all our predictions is a draw the two fighters go back into the hat and live to fight another day. I can do two fights at a time to move things on nicely... here goes:- MERCER, MORRISON, BRUNO, MCALL, RAHMAN, MOORER, LEWIS, BOWE, BONECRUSHER SMITH, MAC FOSTER, MIKE SPINKS, LEON SPINKS, SNIPES, LEOTIS MARTIN, SAVOLD, CARNERA,THAD SPENCER, TATE, COETZEE, BUGNER,CARL WILLIAMS, WEAVER, GALENTO, CHUVALO, CHARLES, MATHIS, SHAVERS, MILDENBERGER, LYLE, DOKES, ALI, LOUIS, TYSON, BERBICK, FARR, SHARKEY, TUBBS, COOPER, BONAVENA, LISTON,TONY TUCKER, HOLMES, MARCIANO, FOREMAN, FRAZIER, WALCOTT, MAX BAER, FOLLEY, PAGE,NINO VALDES, HOLYFIELD, LA STARZA, QUARRY, MACHEN, JOHANSSON, PINKLON THOMAS, WITHERSPOON, NORTON, JIMMY YOUNG, PATTERSON, CLEVE WILLIAMS, COONEY, TERRELL, SCHMELING. ****ALL FIGHTER ARE IN THEIR PRIMES AND HAVE COME INTO THE FIGHT IN TOP CONDITION HAVING HAD PLENTY OF TIME TO PREPARE. LET ME KNOW FOLKS EVREN


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Thu Oct 18 04:36:36 PDT 2001

We have dicussed Jerry vs Foreman here before so I'll try to be brief. Jerry in order to defeat big George would have to gain respect early by landing some hard shots while at the same time avoiding Foreman's punches whenever possible. I could see Jerry doing this because George often telegraphed his punches and Jerry using his speed could have moved in to beat him to the punch and then moved out of harms way. One of the keys to Ali's victory over Foreman is Ali made a point early in the first round to hit George with a very hard right hand to let George know he was in for a fight. This is something others such as Frazier and Norton were unable to do as George had both of these fighters hurt early before they were able to mount much of an offense. Why would Jerry have a chance against Foreman when he lost to both Frazier and Norton? The answer to this question is Jerry was much better at fighting while moving backwards than either of those two fighters.


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Wed Oct 17 17:55:46 PDT 2001

It amazes me that so many people across the country (and probably around the world) still rate Jerry as one of their alltime favorites. I think it says a lot about Jerry as a fighter and also Jerry as a person---he certainly left quite a good impression of fans. After viewing the Quarry-Shavers "Punchfest" again, I came away convinced that if Jerry could have landed a title fight against Big George Foreman, Jerry would have had a legitmate chance of scoring an upset win. The biggest risk to Jerry would have been getting stopped on cuts. If he could have avoided that, I think he might have been able to absorb early punishment from George (much like Ali did), then come alive later in the fight, around the 9th or 10th round, and take advantage of Foreman if he was exhausted.


Joe Krause sadmspats@yahoo.com Wed Oct 17 11:14:50 PDT 2001

I see some on EBAY sometimes, but it is expensive. A lot of fans out there of Jerry. He still is very popular and he deserves to be.


James Quarry TJQF Tue Oct 16 16:35:35 PDT 2001

Not to change the subject on the new project fellas. I just obtained a boxing program on Jerry and Larry Middleton. From England in May 1972. I am real pleased to get it. I am a collector of Jerry memrobilia. So if any of you find or hear where I might get some, please let me know. I've been collecting for years. My most prized is a Teamster Union Jacket in gold velvet, with blue lettering that reads 1965 Golden Gloves Champion on the back. With Jerry on the left front side. If you guys want, I will give a list on what I do have.


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Sun Oct 14 14:00:13 PDT 2001

From the thirties onwards I reckon...what do you think ? That way we won't have so many actual matches that took place cropping up..


Joe Krause sadmspats@yahoo.com Sun Oct 14 09:47:45 PDT 2001

Are we going to do top 64 all-time or just of Jerry's time-period?


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Sat Oct 13 13:45:07 PDT 2001

I was very saddened to hear of the death of Eddie Futch aged 90. My thoughts and respect goes out to all his family and friends. He was a great man and was sure he would make it to 100years. Bless you.


JIMMY DORSEY RONNYRAINS@YAHOO.COM Sat Oct 13 11:08:10 PDT 2001

ANYONE OUT THERE KNOW HOW TO GET A HOLD OF THEY 1974 SUPERSTARS WITH JQ ON IT. ITS NOT EVEN THE SAME JERRY Q, OF THE 1975 VERSION. HE SET THEIR RECORDS IN BASEBALL HITTING,BOWLING,2ND IN GOLF, EVEN WENT OUT OF THE WEIGHT LIFTING AT 220LBS. OF BOXERS ONLY KEN NORTON LIFTED MORE, HAD A GREAT BIKE RACE, LOST TO FRANCO HARRIS ON THE OBSTACKLE COURSE (NO DISGRACE THERE). MUCH BETTER VERSION OF FOR US CRAZY QUARRY FAN'S. JERRY WAS VERY COMPETETIVE IN THAT ONE AND RECEIVED ENOUGH POINTS TO GET ANOTHER INVITE BACK. I HAPPEND TO SEE BOTH "LIVE". JERRY WAS RATED RIGHT BEHIND FRAZIER AT THE TIME, AND THE CAT WAS IN SHAPE.


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Fri Oct 12 19:20:54 PDT 2001

Carl, it is nice that you are trying to retrive some of the lost letters but at the expense of some of the more recent letters? We are missing the last week's posts and if I had to choose, I would rather read those rather than the ones from the past as some of them contain posts when people were arguing and I have no need to read those again! Joe and Evren, I think that 64 is a good number for our tournament. I would like to see the match ups provide for a bye round for some of the all time greats as random match ups could keep fighters not as worthy in the tournament longer.


Joe Krause sadmspata@yahoo.com Fri Oct 12 12:31:16 PDT 2001

I have purchased the game Title Fight 2000 and am re-rating tmany guys to start my own replay project of the era. It should be very interesting to see what happens. I have over 100 guys rated already and have hundreds more to go!


Carl Weingarten TJQF Mon Oct 1 21:58:45 PDT 2001

Kent, Try refreshing your browser a few times. You have to clear the cache in your computer to load up the new page with the revised clip info. I played the new clip from work today and it came up fine. Good luck.


Kent orinonside@aol.com Mon Oct 1 15:09:18 PDT 2001

Carl: I tried the new clip but the Lyle fight still comes up. Is the Alexander clip the same one that is on the extended highlight video?


Carl Weingarten TJQF Mon Oct 1 08:07:12 PDT 2001

There's a new Clip of The Month. It features ABC footage of the Quarry-Alexander fight during a segment of The Superstars in 1975. A brief interview with Jerry is also included.


James Quarry TJQF Mon Oct 1 06:17:23 PDT 2001

Did anyone see the Trinidad fight. I've heard the results and read the paper. I guess Hopkins proved his point.


ROY AŅEZ ANEZBR@PDVSA.COM Sun Sep 30 10:32:39 PDT 2001

I´M 46 YEARS OLD, I HAVE 3 CHILDREN AND THEIR NAME ARE JERRY AND ARWANDA, I LIKE TO KNOW THE STORE´NAME WERE CAN I BUY VIDEOS IN THE FLORIDA STATE, EXCUSME MY BAD ENGLISH BECAUSE I´M FROM VENEZUELA AND SPEAK SPANISH. I LIKE TO RECEIVE YOUR LETTERS


JIMMY DORSEY RONNYRAINS@YAHOO.COM Fri Sep 28 12:44:33 PDT 2001

to KENT APPEL:MY GIRLFRIEND ROBIN and i were watching Conan o'brien they other day, on a commercial break it showed a picture of him, in a diner with a cook's hat throwing out the three stooges, had to be computerized remake, it was hilarious, and i thought of you and moe(JAMES Q). Actually it was jerry;s sparring partner and friend big DAVE CENTI, who really ran FLOYD PATTERSON THRU THE MUD AS A DIRTY BOXER,JQ WAS HAVING PROBLEMS WITH PATTERSON'S HEAD (IT WAS SHARP)AND HE WOULD USE THAT IN THE CLINCHE'S EXAMPLE: JERRY WAS CUT BY PATTERSON'S HEAD IN BOTH BOUTS AND RECEIVED ABOUT A DOZEN STICHES. ON TOP OF HIS HEAD IN THE 2ND BOUT ALONE, JERRY NEVER REALLY COMPLAINED AND IF YOU WATCH THE BOUTS YU COULD SEE FLOYD USE THE TACTIC, IN THE CLINCH, I HAVE A 1967 LA TIMES OF CENTI BEING INTERVIEWED ON THE MATTER TAKE CARE.


JIMMY DORSEY RONNYRAINS@YAHOO.COM Fri Sep 28 12:27:03 PDT 2001

TOMMY MORRISON COMES TO MIND, HE;S BEEN ON THE CANVAS HIS FARE SHARE OF TIMES, RICHARD DUNN, LORENZO ZANON, ALFREDO EVANGELISTA (WAS NOT THE GREATEST). DUANE BOBICK (ALTHOUGH HE TOOK ABOUT AS MANY AS YOU CAN IN ONE ROUND-NORTON.TATE). DANNY MCALINDON,JACK BODELL, ALL OF TYSON'S BUMS! HERE'S ONE FOR YOU GUYS ALTHOUGH HE HAD A CHIN OF GRANITE, GEORGE CHUVALO VS JQ WAS GETTING STAGGERED A FEW TIMES AND IT MIGHT OF BEEN ONLY A MATTER OF TIME, BEFORE JERRY MIGHT HAVE SCORED A KNOCKDOWN, WITH chuvalo's eyes ALSO IN BAD SHAPE. JERRY WAS BEGINNING TO REALLY BOMB HIM , BEFORE THE SUDDEN ENDING. CASE IN POINT NORTON-QUARRY THEY WERE SAYING THE SAME THING. CHUVALO WAS NEVER REALLY EVER KNOCKED TO THE CANVAS , I BELIEVE BONAVENA PUSHED GEORGE DOWN (and they might have ruled it a knock down). and that really would have been a feat if jerry could have done the trick to CHUVALO IN 1969. FUNNY HOW WE ALL ARE LIVING IN HEAVYWEIGHTS PAST HA HA !


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Thu Sep 27 11:09:30 PDT 2001

I wasn't thinking about the second tier group of fighters from the era. Larenzo Zanon would have to have the weakest chin or pretty close to it.


Evren EVREN@BTINTERNET.COM Thu Sep 27 03:02:19 PDT 2001

I go for Richard Dunn as the weakest chin...Joe Bugner and Jimmy Young managed to knock him out !!


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Wed Sep 26 18:45:21 PDT 2001

Earnie Shavers had the weakest chin of the 60's and 70's with a lot of competition from Floyd Patterson. We have to give Floyd credit though because he always got up and fought back hard and most of the time when he was knocked down in a fight he won the fight. On another note, I have heard Jerry as being quoted that Patterson was the dirtiest fighter he ever fought. That seems surprising as Floyd seems like a likable guy outside of the ring. But how nice a person is outside of the ring changes when one the bell rings and it is you or the other guy who gets it.


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Wed Sep 26 17:13:12 PDT 2001

Good point Jimmy...I do appreciate that Ali must have rode the power out of most of his shots...I am biased I guess as Ali is my favourite of all time. How about votes on the weakest chins of the era....they all seemed so durable to me...


JIMMY DORSEY RONNYRAINS@YAHOO.COM Wed Sep 26 13:01:47 PDT 2001

YES EVREN, I' AM SURE YOU ARE A STUDENT OF THE GAME, YOU CONDUCT YOURSELF WITH CLASS ON A CLASS ACT(this post).i usually agree with yur posts. The big differance between ALI and FRAZIER. ALI WAS A PITCHER AND FRAZZ A CATCHER. that is why joe,s got my vote eeven ALI himself said he wasn't sure if BIG JOE was even human. I didnot know joe was even decked by MIKE BRUCE. DID ANYONE EVER SEE THEY LEFT HOOK JQ was hit with vs JOE ALEXANDER? HE GOT UP AND TOOK CARE OF BUSINESS!! ALSO OUR FEARLESS LEADER HEY MOE(JAMES QUARRY) IS DON FRASER STILL AROUND I FIGURE AILEEN EATON IS GONE. and how well did JERRY QUARRY KNOW HER SON WRESTLER GENE LEBELL. JERRY PROBABLY COULD HAVE USED HIM IN ALASKA INSTEAD OF FRED DRYER (HUNTER).DIFFERANCE BETWEEN REEL LIFE AND REAL LIFE. ALSO DO ANYONE KNOW HOW MANY TIMES JERRY WAS KNOCKED DOWN ?I AM COUNTING 6 (AND ONLY LOST 2 OF THOSE).


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Tue Sep 25 11:55:03 PDT 2001

Yes. I have located it. Frazier was knocked down by Mike Bruce in the second round of their fight on 20th September 1965.Joe went on to score a knockout in the next round. But I am not disagreeing with you. Joe Frazier had an excellent chin and was one of the toughest, meanest and ferociious fighter ever to have laced on mitts...he is also in my top 3 of favourite fighters...


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Tue Sep 25 11:30:52 PDT 2001

Thanks for you comments Karl. Jimmy, I'm sure Frazier was knocked down early in his career..I'll find out and let you know. All the best Evren


Karl karlhegman@aol.com Mon Sep 24 19:36:33 PDT 2001

Hi again everyone: I just wanted to touch base on a couple of points brought up recently by Evren. You have to add Eddie Machen to the list of fighters that staggered Joe Frazier. After taking a Frazier body beating, Eddie sprung off the ropes and hit Joe with a left hook that very nearly floored the young Olympian. Joe prevailed in a bitterly contested contest that saw him get nailed flushed several times by the still very well-conditoned, yet over the hill cagey boxing scientist. I agree that Foreman had a very underrated chin, I feel that he fell against Ali more from exhaustion and punching himself out than the right that put him down for Zack Clayton's rapid ten count. Did Ali have the best chin ever amongst the heavyweights? You better beleive it. He also took the best body punch ever-i.e. Frazier in Manilla. I personally feel that the brutal beating that Ali took that day in the long ago in victory's name is responsible for this Great Man's current condition today. There has never been a Champion in the annals of the Sweet Science in the Heavyweight division that took it like that man did that day, and still came back to win. Bugner sure did rock Joe and close his eye and split his lip- But after watching Jerry wipe out his conqueror, Jack Bodell in one minute-Joe wisely decided to avoid Jerry at all costs. I wish he would have had the stones to fight Jerry as it would have been a great win for JQ. Bugner would have gotten knocked out by Jerry. Finally, I would like to recognize Ali for his wonderful comments Friday regarding the Muslims and making it clear to the entire world that the perpetrators of these cowardly deeds were not Muslims and it was not the Muslim lifestyle to commit murder. Thanks Champ- I hope you decide to visit this board dedicated to one of your most noted rivals. I never heard Jerry nor Ali say a really derogatory word about the other-If they did, it was just business to build up the gate-That's all. Two great men, two great athletes in the toughest era in the history of the Heavyweight Division. My sincere condolences go out to the Atlas family of New York as Lieutenant Greg Atlas-Nephew of famed boxing trainer and television analyst Teddy Atlas perished in the attacks on the World Trade Centers as a member of the New York City Fire Department while rescuing innocent and decent hard working victims of this dastardly act. Greg's and all the others' untimely and very unnecessary deaths will ultimately be avenged in no uncertain manner. Peace to All in this, the Greatest Country in the World. Karl


Jennygb again Rule62@igalaxy.net Mon Sep 24 17:57:14 PDT 2001

Here is the info on Mr. Madera, owner of The Dome (Strongdow) Stadium in Bakersfield CA. He is interested in donating his newly renovated boxing arena for use by the JQ Foundation for non-profit fundraising events. Also, boxers, be aware this place is open for training and other bouts. Inocencio Madera The Dome Arene 2201 V St Bakersfield CA 93301 (661) 327-0190


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Mon Sep 24 17:55:54 PDT 2001

It is humorous when people make an issue out of size--- Marciano was a small heavyweight, and the only undefeated champion ever in the division. I agree with all the points in the earlier posts---some of the jumbo guys (like Mathis) lost to smaller men. I'd put any of the crop of 60's and 70's contenders/champs, like Jerry Quarry, Frazier, Ali, Norton, etc., against today's bigger heavyweights. Those guys from yesteryear were plain and simple, more dedicated and more competitive. Yeah, I've busted on Norton for some of his late career knockout losses---but ironically, his loss to Holmes proved that he belongs in the category with Ali, Foreman, Holmes and Frazier. Norton had a few fights where he didn't show up---but against Ali and Holmes, he showed the heart that guys of that era seemed to have---with the exception of Holyfield, I haven't seen that in today's heavyweights.


JIMMY DORSEY RONNYRAINS@YAHOO.COM Mon Sep 24 14:04:24 PDT 2001

DEAR:jenngb, I did not know Bakersfields old strongbow stadium is now called the dome, i boxed in it when STEVE STRELICH OWNED IT AND IT WAS NAMED AFTER HIM (strelich stadium) Also EVREN ,FRAZIER getting knocked down by only BONAVENA AND FOREMAN no disgrace . Doubt if sonny banks (OF ALI FAME) could hit like BONAVENA, AND the way JQ was bombing him in 1969, not alot of heavyweights would have stood up to those shots that early, course joe and JQ HAD THE east/west rivilry. WEPNER WAS GIVING A GIFT KNOCK DOWN WHEN he stepped on ALI'S FOOT AND PUSHED HIM HA HA !


jennygb Rule62@igalaxy.net Mon Sep 24 12:49:25 PDT 2001

I am contacting you for Mr. Inocensio Madera (Chencho), owner of The Dome (old Strongbow) stadium in Bakersfield, CA. He will make available his newly renovated, professional boxing-capable stadium, free of charge, for your fundraisers & events. Please email back for Mr. Mader'a contact information. Thank you, Jenny Gia-Briggs 9/24/01


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Mon Sep 24 11:56:06 PDT 2001

Joe Frazier had a very good chin but he was knocked down once early in his career, twice by Bonavena, 8 times by George Foreman, staggered by Manuel Ramos and Joe Bugner.I was also refering to best chin's of that era...I agree Larry Holmes had a fabulous chin and Chuvalo was made of Granite, Holyfield as well. Who remembers how tough Randy Cobb was...wow ! I recently watched his bouts with Shavers, Norton and Holmes and it was frightening. However, Ali, in my opinion took a punch as well as any man ever has. He took the best of Frazier, Norton and Shavers (did'nt get hit too often by Liston or Foreman). Long like the king...Muhammad Ali !!!!!


JIMMY DORSEY RONNYRAINS@YAHOO.COM Sun Sep 23 13:06:05 PDT 2001

DEAR EVREN: DO YOU REMEMBER JOE FRAZIER'S CHIN? ALTHOUGH I DO REGARD ALI HAS HAVING A GREAT CHIN I HAVE TO GO WITH, OTHERS IF FOR ANY OTHER REASON ALI'S GREAT DEFENSE, KEPT HIM AWAY FROM A LOT OF PUNISHMENT, OF COURSE HE WAS HALF AGAIN BIGGER REACH ETC. THAN ABOUT 90 % OF HIS OPPONENTS. BUT HOW ABOUT THESE GUYS, 1-GEORGE CHUVALO 2- JOE FRAZIER 3- JERRY QUARRY 4- OSCAR BONAVENA 5- GEORGE FOREMAN 6- EVANDER HOLIFIELD 7-RAY MERCER 8-RON LYLE 9- LARRY HOLMES 10-JOE BUGNER. THESE GUYS IF ANYTHING ELSE TOOK A LOT MORE THAN ALI, BUGNER'S HEIGHT AND REACH AND STLE ALONE KEPT HIM OUT OF ALOTTA FUSILEGE, BUT IT DOES NOT TAKE FROM THE FACT HE HAD A GOOD CHIN, FRAZIER WOULD HAVE GOTTEN KILLED AGAINST ALI HAD IT NOTBEEN FOR HIS GREAT DURABILITY, FOREMAN'S THEY ONLY ONE TO RUN HIM OUTTA TOWN (george could sock a little bit) remember holmes taking ernie shavers best and getting up? have to give it to the shock absorbers.


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Sun Sep 23 10:13:54 PDT 2001

Norton's legs seemed to go after the Holmes fight..going down twice against Shavers, down against LeDoux (staggered several times) and blasted by Cooney.Ali had the best chin of the 70's followed by Chuvalo and Quarry. Foreman had a very underestimated chin also - overlooked because of his offensive prowess !!! He was one tough mother never going down in his comeback. He took the best of Holyfield, Morisson and Moorer...his will to win was frightening.


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Sat Sep 22 12:13:29 PDT 2001

Not only did Norton take Holmes' best shots in their fight, he also took some very hard shots from Jerry before stopping Jerry on cuts. The image of the Norton/Quarry fight is that Jerry was out of shape and that it was a one sided fight (you are right Joe, people should check out the tapes for the truth). Jerry was very competitive against Norton for the first three rounds and he appeared to have Norton in trouble at times, particularly in round three where Jerry gets cut early in the round and the two fighters trade bombs for almost an entire round of non stop action. Jerry punched himself out in round three trying to go for a knockout because of the cut and he takes a pounding in rounds four and five leading up to the stoppage due to the severe cut. As we have dicussed before, the general public only sees Jerry getting pounded in that last round in media highlight tapes and they have no idea what happened before. The third round of Norton/Quarry is one of the best heavyweight rounds I have ever seen. Anybody who watches this round will never say that Norton couldn't take a punch and that Jerry was just a punching bag for the division's elite.


Carl Weingarten TJQF Fri Sep 21 23:05:06 PDT 2001

I was able to recover some of the letters from earlier this years that were lost recently. They are posted below. --Take Care All


Joe Krause sadmspats@yahoo.com Fri Sep 21 15:54:06 PDT 2001

The skill level of those fighters of the Golden Age were so much superior to today's guys. Quarry vs Holyfield would have been a tough fight to call and people are putting Holyfield in the top five all-time while Jerry isn't given the same due. Fact is I'll take Norton over Holyfield because Evander sure wasn't the kind of puncher that could erase Ken like Shavers and Foreman, two of the top 3 or 4 punchers of all-time. Watch Norton-Holmes and still tell me Norton couldn't take a punch. So many people on other sites comment on things with the fights as only a distant memory. I tell them to go on EBAY and get the fights and see what your conclusions really are. To become truly educated about an era all fighters need to be cross-refrenced against each other. That is why I am still obtaining as much rare stuff as I can get like Chuvalo-Alongi and Quarry-Alongi I. This stuff is so rare it's expensive, but it's out there. I am also looking forward to getting Patterson-Cooper, Bonavena-Patterson and a couple other Chuvalo fights. I saw the Quarry-Mathis fight listed and was so excited to think that I might get to see this great fight. It turns out the guy made a mistake and the fight isn't available. Some day I will find it if it's out there. This is an educated audience that comes here to write their feelings and I respect that.


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Fri Sep 21 14:28:09 PDT 2001

Evren you are right. The bigger fighters have not proved themselves to be better than the smaller fighters of yesterday. Case and point, Joe Louis fought in his prime at between 200 to 205 pounds and he destroyed three fighters that dwarfed him in size. Abe Simon, 6'5" 260 pounds; Buddy Baer, 6'6" 250; and Primo Canera 6'6" 270. Huge heavyweights then are nothing new. These fighters that Louis beat were defeated by better skill and their size didn't help them. Sure the giant fighters are more common these days, and the average size is bigger in general, but the skill has to be there to assure success. I get a kick out of some fans of fighters like the Klitschko brothers who say that there is no way tiny Joe Louis or short Joe Frazier could ever compete in the ring with them giving away such size. These fans seem to forget that the Klistchkos have not proved themselves yet and also they forget that around twenty years ago we were hearing the same kind of praises of another giant, 6'7" 230 + pound Gerry Cooney. We all know in hindsight what 212 pound Larry Holmes and 198 pound Michael Spinks did to Cooney! We may very well be in a different era, and one or two of these behemouths may step out and show they have the skill to go with the size, but it is yet to be seen.


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Fri Sep 21 13:15:36 PDT 2001

I still maintain that the best fighters from the Heavyweight division have been those between 200-220 lbs. There are very few natural 220lb + fighters who are not over muscled or fat. As James stated many of todays fighters are bigger (fat, muscled) and that makes them slower. A case in point..when Riddick Bowe was in the early part of his career he was in the 220lb weight bracket and he was a far better fighter then than the 240 - 250lb behemoth from the later years...Lennox Lewis is the same. Many fighters from the 'Ali' era could have come in much heavier if they had wanted to. Look at Ernie Terrell - 6ft 6" - only 209lb's - he could have easily have put on another 20lbs. But he was fit and natural and fast..all the ingredients to make a great fighter.George Foreman was a truly big man yet only weighed 217lbs when he won the title..he would be considered a smaller Heavy these days..but again, George was a far better fighter at this weight than the heavier version...(76-77). The best fighters of the last 40 years in the Heavyweight division :- Sonny Liston (210 - 220lbs), Muhammad Ali (200 - 220lbs)Joe Frazier(203 - 218lbs) Ken Norton (210 - 225lbs) Larry Holmes(208lbs - 220lbs) Mike Tyson (215-224lbs) Evander Holyfield(204-216lbs). Riddick Bowe and Lennox Lewis were the others and they were far better fighters before they overgrew. The weights I listed were estimates based on prime years.


James Quarry TJQF Wed Sep 19 08:54:50 PDT 2001

Jerry lost some big fights and he won some big fights. he won more big fights than he lost. I was just tryiung to state that Jerry came so close in the Golden Era of boxing. Had he won the fight with Ellis, he would have surely had to defend against Ali or Frazier. When a fighter wins the title, he has become the champ. With that come a lot more confidence. He becomes a better fighter. I feel we will never know the full potential of Jerry Quarry. We can dream can't we. I am still very happy about Jerry's career. He will always be one of the best, in an era of the best of all time.


JIMMY DORSEY RONNYRAINS@YAHOO.COM Tue Sep 18 08:51:29 PDT 2001

Obviously Angelo,JERRY WAS HURTING THAT BOUT WITH ELLIS,And it does not take from the fact that Ellis was a very underrated and clever boxer with a good punch that sparred countless rounds with Ali, Jerry (with the bad back).Just did not have the movement, and could not capitalize when he hurt ELLIS. ANGELO DUNDEE'S fighters are undefeated vs JERRY and in a recent interview,said he would have loved to have had JERRY WITH THEY POWER AND HAND SPEED.Ellis went a long way after eearly middleweight defeats, and proved he was far more than a sparring partner for anybody. Ask Chuvalo,Patterson,Jones,Bonavena,Martin,and Quarry.Jimmy lost to Kirkman, Bugner, and had a draw with Middleton. Guys he would have defeated easily in his prime. Out of his prime he gave RON LYLE a great bout in DENVER.Ellis also had a great sneak right hand that also kept LYLE AND QUARRY AT BAY.AND DECKED BONAVENA a few times in the tournament. yu are right about it all being ancient history ANGELO.And in my opinion I really think things would have been very intersesting had FOREMAN gave JERRY Q. A SHOT IN 73' 74', although i do not know if i had liked Quarry so well if he'd have won the title. no not really i followed the man's entire career,easy to do in they san JUAQUIN VALLY OF CALIFORNIA, take care.


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Mon Sep 17 17:29:27 PDT 2001

Well, we all know that if "ifs and buts were candy and nuts, oh what a party we'd have." With that said though, I must say---Jerry was SO CLOSE to beating Ellis. He SHOULD HAVE been able to score a knockout after stunning Ellis late in the fight. Would have, should have, could have--- Jerry was the better fighter but on that night, Ellis rose to fight his best fight, while Jerry performed at an even level, but not a dynamic level. The scoring still COULD have gone Jerry's way. I had it a draw (have the full fight on tape thanks to my donation to TJQF). If Jerry would have won, he'd still have had to defend against Frazier and/or Ali. Later on, the other "if" is IF Jerry would have landed a 1973 or early '74 fight against Big George Foreman, could he have fought the type of fight he did against Lyle? If so, he might have taken Foreman out like Ali did.


Mr. Jimmy TJQF Mon Sep 17 15:15:58 PDT 2001

Joe and Jimmy hit it on the nail head. So did Angelo. Jerry said in his poem, " I've been in the ring with the best of all men, some say the best of all time". Boxing now is nothing like it was then. I heard the same thing in the 60's. In the 60's, they were comparing fighters of the 40's. Boxing will probably neve have another "Golden Era" The last of the warriors are gone. I don't mean to sound like I'm downgrading todays fighters. They just don't have the experience of the fighters of yesterday. They fight for some sort of title in a very very short time. It's not Boxing that has left us high and dry. Boxing has gotten better from a safety aspect. Boxing is more organized now. Rules have been changed to protect the fighter for the first time in the history of the sport. In the heavyweight division, the fighters are mush bigger. this usually makes then slower. So when you put bigger you get slower. Then we get bored. We, all of us should be thankful we were either a part of or a fan, we witnessed a "Golden Era" like no other. I feel very fortunate to have been a part of this era. Again, I thank my brother Jerry for giving me the oppertunity to experience it first class. To me, not being one sided, I feel Jerry was the best of all time. Jerry just didn't have the full luck of the Irish. He came that close to taking it all.


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Sun Sep 16 19:06:20 PDT 2001

Jimmy: You're right, and that's why it's known as the golden era for heavyweights. I doubt we'll see anything like it again in our lifetimes. It's now a different era, with different mentality. The warriors from the 60's-70's (and I put Larry Holmes in that group) have been replaced by fly-by-night prima-donnas. Holyfield is an exception. But the huge money, pay-per-view format has left us with very few good fights. The layoff time in between fights is ridiculous. And sometimes the best matches can't even be made because HBO has this guy signed and Showtime has that guy signed and so on and so forth. The sport has never been perfect but it was always interesting. Now, it's not even interesting. I'll still watch the key heavyweight fights, but it's just not the same.


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Sun Sep 16 05:38:46 PDT 2001

James, is there any information or studies that have shown that older fighters are in more danger because of age of suffering damage? I know it makes sense that the older a fighter gets, the more damage he could receive. But is there any direct proof? I know that physically an athlete has a greater chance of suffering injuries and it takes longer to heal than a younger athlete. But does this also apply to things like head truma?


Joe Krause sadmspats@yahoo.com Sat Sep 15 14:25:49 PDT 2001

It was the best time for boxing, and it never again will be that good. The personalities and styles created something that never can be duplicated. Thanks go to all of them for making it such a special time. I watched Jerry's two battles against Patterson again today. Sure did enjoy the Dick Enberg call on the first one. Howard did the second one and felt is was neccesary to talk over the introductions of the fighters. Big suprise right?


JIMMY DORSEY RONNYRAINS@YAHOO.COM Sat Sep 15 12:15:22 PDT 2001

I LET AN OLD FRIEND OF MINE THAT IS 76 AND A LITTLE BAD OFF, BORROW ONE OF MY BOXING JERRY QUARRY TAPES, AND HE WAS/IS AN AVID ERNIE SHAVERS FAN. HE DID NOT APPRECIATE MY RIBBING OF JERRY BOMBING HIM OUT, WE DID COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT JERRY TASTED A FEW RIGHTS RIGHT OFF THE BAT, AND WE BELIEVE JERRY FIGURED HE'D BETTER GET HIM OUT OF THERE, I WAS NEEDLING HIM THAT I WAS HAVING TROUBLE TRYING TO COUNT THE PUNCHES JERRY THREW. I GOT HIM TO LAUGH, AND IT OCURRED TO ME THAT THIS PARTICULAR HEAVYWEIGHT ERA WAS REALLY SPECIAL, EVERYONE SEEMED TO HAVE DIFFERANT STYLES, ALI. FOREMAN, FRAZIER, NORTON, LYLE, SHAVERS, BONAVENA, QUARRY, ELLIS. PATTERSON. COOPER. BUGNER, MARTIN, LISTON. YOU COULD NAME A FIGHTER IN THOSE DAYS AND EVEEN WOMEN WOULD KNOW WHO THEY WERE. IT REALLY WAS AN INTERESTING TIME FOR BOXING.


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Sat Sep 15 05:10:57 PDT 2001

Kent---good post. Let's talk boxing, let's talk Jerry and let's talk about the foundation.


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Fri Sep 14 06:16:25 PDT 2001

Angelo, I don't want to argue with you or anyone else. I am very sorry that I seemed to single you out when I should have told DKS also that He should not be bringing up this petty nonsense, especially at this time. I will say it here now, WE NEED TO ALL DROP THIS PETTY BS AND UNITE FOR THE COMMON GOOD. SABRINA IS RIGHT! THERE IS TOO MUCH HATE IN THE WORLD AND I DON'T WANT TO ADD TO IT. Angelo, please accept my apology, it comes from the bottom of my heart. I know we really don't know each other directly but in a way I like to think of the regulars here as friends of mine or even like family, and sometimes families squabble, but I hope we don't have to in these trying times.


sabrina sabrinalporter@aol.com Fri Sep 14 05:13:13 PDT 2001

you tell them Angelo.everyone needs to stop the arguing and get along.THERE IS TOO MUCH HATE IN THIS WORLD!!!!!!!


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Thu Sep 13 19:16:36 PDT 2001

Kent: Go back and read your post. You sound loopier than he does. How far back are we going in these posts to dredge up something Clyne or James did wrong (I can't even tell who was at fault by reading your post or DKS's)? And why does Sabrina's name continue to be dragged into this? When was the last time she wrote anything insulting? I'm the first to defend intelligently stated opinion, even if it's 180 degrees different than mine. But I won't defend, and I'll take you to task for defending unprovoked bullying and namecalling. In your way of thinking, some people here are allowed to have anger and insult others and you defend that. I make a small comment critical of that mentality and you worry about ME starting a feud. No, I didn't start the feud. Maybe it re-started when an interesting newcomer was called a bozo and a member of the Quarry family was called immature. When I read things like that, I'm going to respond the way I did 100% of the time whether you like it or not.


Paul T. Maduros pama42@yahoo.com Thu Sep 13 11:54:28 PDT 2001

Let us all come together in this time of crisis, we need to do now what needed to be done long ago. Please support our President. GOD BLESS AMERICA!


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Wed Sep 12 21:16:29 PDT 2001

Come on Angelo, now is not the time to be critical of DKS. I know what he was talking about. He was saying in regards to Clyne saying that James had Christian restraint when dealing with DKS, that why was he singled out instead of Foolface or Coo Coo. When these other two individuals were fighting with everyone, maybe even worse than DKS was. Let's not start up our own old feuds again! I AGREE WITH SABRINA, WE NEED TO GET ALONG TOGETHER IN THESE TRYING TIMES.


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Wed Sep 12 19:14:34 PDT 2001

DKS---when you come down from your high, can you explain what it is you're talking about? You sound loopy this time. As for the terrorist bombing---nothing could be said here that hasn't already been said. Let's pray for the victims and then exterminate those responsible and those who allow them within their borders. Reduce them to dust.


Sabrina Porter sabrinalporter@aol.com Wed Sep 12 06:10:07 PDT 2001

DKS why are you always bringing up my name on this guestbook? i thought we were past all this bs....i don't really even post on here anymore to avoid the problems, so i ask you please leave my name out of your comments.i have apologized to you in the past but you keep bringing it up all the time... ALL THAT STUFF IS WORTHLESS COMPARED TO THE PEOPLE INVOLVED WITH THE ATTACK ON THE UNITED STATES.WE ALL NEED TO GET ALONG AND STOP FIGHTING WITH EACH OTHER.THERE IS ROOM IN THIS WORLD FOR ALL OF US TO GET ALONG.PEACE


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Tue Sep 11 19:25:58 PDT 2001

Somehow all of our bickering that has occured here from time to time doesn't seem so important now with all that is happening in Washington DC and New York. All I can say is: ALL MY HOPES AND PRAYERS GO OUT TO THE VICTIMS OF THE BOMBINGS AND TO THEIR FAMILIES. DKS, I hope you can fill us in some more as to how the mood and what your impressions are in DC right now.


Br.DKS Opinionatedbro@yahoo.com Tue Sep 11 16:32:39 PDT 2001

To the keen bozo Clyne the Quarry's also had to deal with foolface and that idiotic, no good, deceitful, low-life freak coo coo (who were both very vicious in attacks towards quarry family in particular) the at times immature sabrina, eveready batt. (you know who you are), Angelo, Kent, JP and others too. Not to mention your self. I've also had to deal with attacks on my self. If they were "christian like" than they are not good representations of christian ethics. No need to single me out now (then again Black folk are usually singled out). I'M WRITTING FROM WASHINTON DC AND AM SHOCKED AT TODAYS EVENTS. I THOUGHT OKLAHOMA WAS BAD (WHICH OF COURSE IT WAS).THIS ATTACK WAS STRAIGHT OUT OF HOLLYWOOD ONLY IT WAS TRAGICALLY REAL! LORD HELP THIS CRAZY LAND CALLED AMERICA! WILL RETURN TO OTTAWA (capital city of Canada for you american yahoos) by the end of Sept. or early oct. Have no choice since will be starting full time work. Taking a vacation and visiting my Pop, older sister and other family members who live here in DC. Many more live in New York City where the beyond belief attacks took place. Only my Father is a Fed gov. worker though. He's okay. I pray for the innocent victims of this madness. Maryland is such a beautiful state. Especially the city of Baltimore which I hope to visit again (like I did last year). I'll end here for now. PS:Rahman win? You're joking right? Lewis will take back the title. he clearly was un-prepared for the last fight. Rahman is a good human being though. Not many athletes like him as a person. I'll go for the long-shot HOPKINS as well. Overall he's the better fighter.If only he were 5 yrs younger. Only age is why tito will probably win. He caught Hopkins at the right time. TITO HAS NO CHANCE AGAINST ROY JONES THOUGH! Especially at 168lbs. That's more Jones weight than Tito. Jones should move up not down. He's ruining his legacy.


JIMMY DORSEY RONNYRAINS@YAHOO.COM Tue Sep 11 13:19:51 PDT 2001

DORIAN: I Know heavyweight Larry RENAUD FOUGHT OSCAR BONAVENA in Rome ITALY July 13, 1974 and was stopped in the 3rd round and believe it or not the RING MAGAZINE saw fit in there october 1974 issue to move BONAVENA up a notch in its world ratings TO NO.#5 And moved a young aspiring heavyweight who had just slugged it out with JOE FRAZIER. DOWN A NOTCH TO #6 you guessed it "IRISH" JERRY QUARRY. I DO remember that because i wanted to know who bonavena beat to move him up. FOR THE MONTH'S ENDING RESULTS OF THAT MAGAZINE DATED AUGUST 15TH 1974. thats the best i can do on LARRY take care!


Dorian dorianwincikaby@hotmail.com Mon Sep 10 18:36:02 PDT 2001

If anyone knows anything about an old boxer named: Larry Renaud, Please email me. I am trying to find out his fight record.


JIMMY DORSEY ronnyrains@yahoo.com Sun Sep 9 22:37:35 PDT 2001

to BOB BUMBERA; I'LL TRY TO get you all of JERRY'S MEASUREMENTS i know he had 17 1/2 inch guns his reach was about only 72inch. but i have a few listings had him at 76 1/2 which would be the same as TOMMY MORRISON's. i think they were helping the gate on that one! his lowest weight was pro debut (183) and highest 209 3/4 vs 'SCRAP iron" JOHNSON. I'LL HAVE TO SEE WHAT ELSE I CAN COME UP WITH.


JIMMY DORSEY ronnyrains@yahoo.com Fri Sep 7 15:54:30 PDT 2001

to BOB BUMBERA; I'LL TRY TO get you all of JERRY'S MEASUREMENTS i know he had 17 1/2 inch guns his reach was about only 72inch. but i have a few listings had him at 76 1/2 which would be the same as TOMMY MORRISON's. i think they were helping the gate on that one! his lowest weight was pro debut (183) and highest 209 3/4 vs 'SCRAP iron" JOHNSON. I'LL HAVE TO SEE WHAT ELSE I CAN COME UP WITH.


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Thu Sep 6 19:50:29 PDT 2001

Yep, it was Robbie Epps, not Robbie Sims. Sorry for the mix-up, but the rest of the facts hold true. Clearly, the Epps camp thought the Ayala's were thugs and history shows that Tony Jr. had his share of trouble.


James Quarry TJQF Thu Sep 6 12:55:55 PDT 2001

Mr. Bumbera; I'll check into the states you are interested in. I hope to have this information on this page sometime this week end.


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Thu Sep 6 07:10:55 PDT 2001

Robbie Epps? Could that be it? Like I wrote to Karl, it's a bad feeling to be 38 and losing my memory, especially boxing stat memory!


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Thu Sep 6 07:04:06 PDT 2001

No, I think that as Karl pointed out in an e-mail to me, I'm mistaken with the name. If I could find a Tony Ayala Jr. fight record from the 80's, I'd recognize the name. Might have been another Texas family----one of the regulars at this board should be able to help me out! I believe the fight was an early round KO win for Ayala---and I think Ayala got into trouble soon after the fight (maybe within a year or so). If it wasn't Sims, I wonder who?


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Wed Sep 5 22:39:24 PDT 2001

Angelo, when you speak of the Simms family do you realize that Robbie Simms is the half brother of Marvin Haglar? They have the same mother but different fathers. Could they have another brother who was also a fighter that is named Haglar or Simms and that is the person who fought Ayala? I do know for sure that Marvin Haglar never fought Ayala.


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Wed Sep 5 09:55:30 PDT 2001

Hmmm...Karl let me know that he thinks I'm mistaken about the fight (Sims-Ayala). Does anyone know if these two ever fought? I was sure it was a Sims-Ayala fight that I watched on a network boxing card.


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Tue Sep 4 16:23:09 PDT 2001

Going back to an earlier post, yes, the Quarry family has a reputation among boxers AND fans as a good hearted bunch. You just don't hear many bad things said---and boxing families really do develop reputations, good and bad. For example, I remember the Robbie Sims-Tony Ayala Jr. fight in the 80's. Ayala defeated Simms. I remember people from the Simms talking about the Ayalas. Basically, they said that win or lose, no matter how you cut it, the Ayalas were bad people. Now, I don't know the Ayalas and I'm not close enough to the situation to comment fairly from first hand experience. But I find it interesting that months after that fight---after the Robbie Sims camp warned the public that the Ayalas were bad people with a talented boxer, Tony Jr. was put away for rape.


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Tue Sep 4 15:35:17 PDT 2001

Clyne, My grandparents were not bad people when they told their kids not to play with the "Olkies." They were just ignorant in a way because they had no idea what the people from "the other side of the tracks," so to speak,had to go through. My grandparents were just too busy trying to make it themselves in hard times to know and understand what was happening to other people. My mother also has told me that she used to go to a movie theratre in Los Angeles and she used to like to sit upstairs in the balcony (during the 1940s) where all the Negros (sorry for the term, but that is what black people were called back then)sat and as a little girl she thought that they were lucky to get to sit there. I don't think she realized that the reason why the blacks always sat up there was because they were not allowed to sit downstairs! Imagine that, segregation in L.A.! That is something we don't here about that I believe is true. Why would my mother make something up she saw as an innocent little girl? Racism reared its ugly head here in sunny Southern Calironia too. Keep the stories coming!


Clyne Keener clynek@myexcel.com Tue Sep 4 11:29:09 PDT 2001

Kent ! Thankyou for your comment on Aug.29. I know our mothers and fathers did the best they could under those conditions.I thought I might tell what effect it had on the children. By the time I had reached the 8th grade I had gone to 18 schools.Some of those schools,more then once.Thanks to the strict 3 R's in those days and comic books, I can read and write pretty good.And also the truant officer that came into the field and told my dad,if he stayed more than three days at any place,get those kids in school.This gave me a terrible inferiority complex.The constant moving made a social life,a girl friend or real buddy impossible. I did my share of picking potatoes, thats why I prefered driving a truck.The field workers wore a big wide belt with two big hooks in front,several burlap bags could be hung on the hooks at one time.You bent over,picking up and throwing the potatoes between your legs into the sack. When it was full, you stood up,removed the sack from the hooks, placed it in the row for the swamper. The Field Boss would step off the rows a certain distance and drive a long stake in the ground. One person was responsible for each space.A tractor pulled a Digger that would remove the potatoes from the ground, shake the dirt off and drop them on the ground. You had just enough time to pick the potatoes in your space before the tractor came back around. The wage was 60 cents an hour for each space. The more kids in the field,the more money. I was in my mid teens,driving a truck in the field,there was a pretty teen aged girl picking potatoes with her folks. I wanted so bad for her to notice me insted of those swampers with their big muscles. I would even remove the vines from her row when I had time, to make it easier for her. To no avail. It was the last day,the field crew would be finished by noon and moving on and I had not gotten the attention of the girl.My dad said his swamper didn't show and he would have to find someone.I begged him to let me do it.I would get another kid to drive.He laughed but said ok.Now I will get that girl to look at me.I must have been crazy.After about a half dozen sacks,I couldn't get them up on the truck without using my knee or using my forearms to push up on the sack.Dad was having to reach farther down each time. I was having to stop the truck to catch up.I was so embarrassed, I didn't want the girl to see me at all. My dad would keep saying,you give up?, and I would say,No. Thank goodness their were other trucks, because we only had about a half a load when the crew finished. The Field Boss had brought out a couple of wash tubs full of ice and soda pop. He invited us to stop and join the farwell party.I didn't want to but the ice cold pop sounded good.I went over and sat by myself on the truck running board.The burlap bags had took all the hide off my fingers. I was bleeding and dirt was caked in the blood.I was hirting all over,I had made such a fool of myself.I put my elbows on my knees and my face in my hands.I heard a noise,I opened my eyes,She was standing there.I thought I had died and the Lord had sent an angle.She knelt down and had a water bag and some white rags.She took my hands,one at a time,washed and dried them.She put mercurochrome on the raw places,tore a rag in strips and wrapped each finger.All I could do was sit there and stare at her.I was speechless.When she was finished,she said,Goodby,I hope we meet again.Her folks were waiting in the car.She ran and climbed in the back seat.I raised my hand,she looked back and waved as the car left the dusty field and pulled onto the road. I did it, she noticed me.


Bob Bumbera renfbera@AOL.com Tue Sep 4 10:10:41 PDT 2001

James,what was Jerry's true "Tale of the Tape", several articals I have list his hight as 5'-11" some have 6',reach as 71" to 75" chest as 40" to 44" ect... What's the true story. Thanks


James Quarry TJQF Mon Sep 3 05:39:49 PDT 2001

It looks like a couple of our boxing fans are picking Rahman. They could be right. I feel the Lennox will want his title back. I agree with Karl, that Lewis is lazy. Because of that attitude is what cost him the title. That will change. I feel he will go in with a purpose this time. Then again, the promoter Don King is involved. For some strange reason, strange things happen with his promotions. Score cards are way off or fighters quit. However, I pick Lewis. Sorry guys.


Karl karlhegman@aol.com Sun Sep 2 20:31:14 PDT 2001

I think Rahman crunches Lewis once again in the return go. I never was much impressed by Lewis, dating back to the early part of his pro career. He gets fatigued early because IMO he is top heavy and musclebound. He cannot take a good punch, and is lackadaisical and lazy in the ring. I feel he was a guy who was in the right place at the right time. Rahman is a good, solid fighter whom I feel will get better as Gil Clancy always says that fighters improve 20 - 30% after they win a Championship. It's lights out once again for the china chinned Englishman, Canadian, Jamaican..or whatever his nationality on any given day is. Rahman freezes him in six or seven. Thanks, Karl


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Sun Sep 2 17:57:46 PDT 2001

I am going to go out on a limb a little bit and say that I believe that Lewis will regain the title by decision. I say this after being raked over the coals here or at the Frazier site after the first fight for saying that for the time being, Rahman is the better fighter because he won where it counts, in the ring. This time I hope it is a good fight instead of the last time that Lewis avenged a loss and Oliver McCall quit and starting crying in the ring for no apparent reason. To Todd Ciresi: the white hope issue is a sensitive topic and should be brought up carefully. I say this because Jerry didn't seem to like the label because he used to say; "I don't fight for any race. I fight for myself and when I get into the ring, I am fighting a man who can be beaten and who has two arms and two legs, just like me." I didn't like Jerry just because of his race. I liked him because he was a good person along with being a great fighter. There are a lot of people out there who feel the same way that I do.


James Quarry TJQF Sat Sep 1 05:47:55 PDT 2001

Well let's hear about the Heavyweight Championship fight coming up between Lennox and Rahman. Who do you think will win and why. These are really big guys.


Todd Ciresi sarge12003@aol.com Thu Aug 30 00:09:54 PDT 2001

continuation All i see is the Tysons and Holyfields ,dominating the ring, and i always say to my kids, someday there will be another "Great White Hope",,,they have no idea what im talkin about,,, but now i realize, neither did I...After watching these videos of Jerry,and seeing how his life story are so similiar to my fathers, I realize ive been talking about him all along, and no wonder why dad felt so much emotion when he talked of him...the only other person he talked about with so much conviction was his brother Frank, who was one of the baddest Sicillians in the housing projects, and his own father,my grandpa... Jerrys absence in life has caused a great deal of pain not only to his family, but also to people who live on the totally opposite side of the country,,,he touched alot of souls in his lifetime,,and i only speak of ""this "" country,,, because i know that from 1st hand experience. There is no telling outside of the U.S Hope your mother is fine Eric,,,All turned out fair midlen"" for me since the ranch... T.J CIRESI


Todd Ciresi sarge12003@aol.com Wed Aug 29 23:17:51 PDT 2001

I was on a christian ranch with Eric Quarry.My cousin runs the ranch in Paris California...I had always heard of Jerry from my early days , he was my dads hero of the boxing world,and after viewing this web site, i can clearly see why...Being 30 yrs old, all i s


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Wed Aug 29 17:34:08 PDT 2001

Clyne you keep the stories coming! Jerry always said that he had a "Grapes of Wrath" background and that the most money he ever made at any kind of regular job was 99 dollars a week changing tires. Your rememberences draw a picture of what life was like back then. My mother has told me about how her parents didn't want her to play with the Okies's children when she was a young girl growing up in the Los Angeles area but she said that she did so anyway. My grandparents also worked hard raising a family during the depression and WW2 (my family is native Califorinan completely) but I am sure they had no idea what the new "dust bowl" arrivals had to go through. As fans of Jerry's, it is good to know where he came from.


JIMMY DORSEY RONNYRAINS@YAHOO.COM Wed Aug 29 12:00:26 PDT 2001

DEAR KENT: KNYCK, KNYCK, KNYCK, No really they only one jerry came in heavier than ZANON, NEUMANN WAS THAT SCRAP IRON JOHNSON IN HONALULU SO REALLY JERRY never even came in at 210 for a bout. and was almost out weighed every time the man fought. And in boxing even 10 pounds especially when yur in the major leagues like QUARRY CAN make a big differance. I HAVE AN OLE RING MAGAZINE. That has JQ listed at 212 for CHARLY RENO 1N 1969 HAS TO BE AN ERROR. For a few days later he also ko'd AARON EASTLING and was 201lbs. doubt he lost that kinda weight in such few days. so i would say he was about 202 for RENO. THEY ONLY REASON that i knew about the neumann bout was that the papers said at 209lb jerr was at the heaviest of his career. 11 pounds more than ali IN VEGAS.AND WAS SLUGGISH. Of course he trained like a demon for LYLE A MONTH LATER AND AT 200. IT ALL PAID OFF TAKE CARE!


Clyne Keener clynek@myexcel.com Wed Aug 29 09:51:03 PDT 2001

Thanks again Angelo.I hope I haven't become a bore, There is an old saying, company and fish stink after three days. This site has brought back so many memories of the so called "Dust Bowl" period. I hope that anything I say can be a tribute to the Quarry family. This is their roots.they came from people who knew hard times but were good, hard working,honest people. And I might add ingenuous. The cars in those days couldn't get the milage as the present cars do without an overhaul. The excepted way was,take the hood off,bend over or climb on top of the engine while someone lay on their back in the dirt under the car, with stuff dropping or pouring in ones face.I remember this because I was impressed by what I saw. Place was Smith's Corner,and about the time I tatooed Jack's hands. It was time for a ring and valve job for the family living next to us in a tent. The father and sons laid a mattress on the ground beside the car,They pushed the car over on its side, on the mattress.They had full access to both top and bottom of the engine while standing.Now that's using your head. Clyne Keener


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Wed Aug 29 08:03:55 PDT 2001

Jimmy D. Oh a wise guy again! I stand corrected that Jerry had heavier weigh ins than Zanon. I am surprised that he weighed so much for the Randy Neuman fight. But then again, I think I could whip the guy who sings short people without training too! PS, for all of you other wise guys out there, I know that Neuman the fighter and Neuman the entertainer are two different guys. So shut up ya lunk heads!


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Tue Aug 28 17:53:52 PDT 2001

Clyne: As important as that $5.00 might have been back then, I'm sure your Dad was probably more proud of giving his sons the memory of defeating the carnival fighter in front of the crowd. I'm sure the family had some big excitement that night!


JIMMY DORSEY RONNYRAINS@YAHOO.COM Tue Aug 28 14:25:59 PDT 2001

KENT AND MR.JIMMY (THE MOE OF OUR FEARLESS LEADERS). BEEN doing a lot of research on two details of jerry's career and wondering if i should do it for a lotta fighter's. both boxers weight vs each other,and what month to month was jerry's world rating by the ring magazine. i've really came up with alot. and mr. Jimmy helped me out a lot. JERRY QUARRY's heavy was 209 3/4 vs "scrap iron" JOHNSON in HAWII in 1975 and according to my records 183 the low. I called the boxing columnist in LAS vegas. and he said JERRY WAS 205 FOR Cramner in that non-bout. which should still involve criminal charges on the promoter'S PART IN THAT SHAME.And JERRY'S BEST RATING FROM SEPT 70 TO DEC 70 OF THE RING MAGAZINE ISSUES. THEY #1 CONTENDER. AND #2 FOR FEB 72 TILL AUG 72. JERRY ALSO WEIGHED IN AT 209 FOR RANDY NEUMANN AND LORENZO ZANON. THANKS GUYS THIS SITE IS A PLEASURE.


Jay Eliades oeighter1@aol.com Mon Aug 27 13:48:53 PDT 2001

Thanks for the great web site.


Clyne Keener clynek@myexcel.com Mon Aug 27 00:25:28 PDT 2001

Thank you Angelo for the complement.James you have a way of bringing back the memories.Dad spent a lot of time at that bar.The grocery store and filling station on the corner. Mom would send us to the store. the clerk would reach up and pull out the little recept book with Keener printed on the cover and charge it. You reminded me of another story, I don't remember what town or when but the folks took us to a carnival.We were walking around taking in the sites when we heard a loud clatering noise.People were walking toward it and so did we. Upon a small platform were two men. One was raking a piece of pipe up and down the rivets on an old water heater tank. The other man was in trunks and flexing his muscles.After he drew a large crowd,the barker clamed his man could whip any man in the crowd(wrestling).My dad stood there for a couple of minutes, my mom grabbed his arm and said ,don't Henry,My dad raised his hand and said,I can whip the s,o,b. The two men jump down and headed for a big tent. People lined up and started paying to get in.Mom wouldn't go in but my brothers and I went in to root for dad. It didn't take long,Dad picked him up, threw hin down and jumped on him for a 1,2,3. When he walked out,he had a five dollar bill in his hand and said, I told them I could whip the s,o,b.


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Sun Aug 26 20:16:58 PDT 2001

Mr. Keener's letters read like a movie script! Come to think of it, if the Jerry Quarry story is made, showing his pops' upbringing and work at potato packing would be a good backdrop!


Mr. Jimmy TJQF Sun Aug 26 06:50:22 PDT 2001

Well, Kent, There is no problem. As you can see I was guessing about the max weight of Jerry. You are correct. My dad ran away from home at the age of 14. Yes, he had a very strict father also. However, Dad became a fighter on his own. He realized he could make money following the circus around fighteing the circus fighter for money. Dad was able to win over these guys. Jack Quarry turned pro. at 17 in Mew Mexico. I have a clipping and picture in the local news paper from that time. My dad had one brother named Jessy. He was older. So Kent, I stand corrected on Jerry's weight. After me dad turned pro. He was drafted into the army. He became a fight in the Army. he was beating all those amatures. the Army found out he was pro. and almost court marshalled him. I carried a grudged against my dad for year regarding our up bringing. I look back on it now. I like the man I am today. So because of the way we were brought up. Made me the way I am. In 1999 when I attended the Association of Boxing Commissioner Meeting in Baltimore, I had a long talk with my Dad and worked out all those problems. We forgave each other. so I do not live with hate inside me anymore. It really made me realize none of us know haw to raise children. We only had, as a guideline, was the way we were raised.


Kent oriononside@aol.com Sun Aug 26 04:34:48 PDT 2001

I hate to contradict the man who knows more about Jerry than all of us but, Jerry was listed at 209 for the Larenzo Zanon fight and he was 207 for the Norton fight. The announcers say his weight several times on the extended video. One thing I would like to ask you James and that is, has your dad ever said if his father made him fight and did he have brothers that he had to fight with growing up? It would make since that your grandfather did the same thing to your father that your father did to you. A lot of parents pass on what they learned growing up.


James Quarry TJQF Sat Aug 25 07:52:41 PDT 2001

Jerry turned pro at 183 lbs. I think his highest weight was 204. I remeber being a swamper myself Mr.Keener. I remember Smith's Corner in shafter very well. The bar that was frequinted was Harold's Place. Our father as you know would have Jerry and myself fight each other for the amusement of all the people there. There was sawdust on floor. this was a real county bar. Years later I went back and took a picture of the place. It was closed and run down. However it brought back a lot of memories.


Clyne Keener clynek@myexcel.com Fri Aug 24 22:08:57 PDT 2001

James! Thanks for the information on you father. Before I comment more on your dad, I would like to complement you and the others on how you kept your cool with Brother DKS in last years letters. That was the perfect example of Christian attitude. After reading and re-reading your letter and trying to recall those years.I don't recall Dad working with anyone else that was a real fighter. I think this is why Dad liked Jack so much and talked about him years after. They got together a short while before Dad and Mom went back to Oklahoma and about ten years later Dad died of cancer at age 70. My three brothers died of cancer, at age 43, 57,72. You talked about Jack's style. I remember hearing Dad talk about someone that could smack a guy in the jaw in such a way that it would draw the guy in closer rather then knock him away. Do you remember a wide place in the road called CAWELO on Hwy. 99. Three business men owned that place, MR.Camp,Mr.West And Lowe. We hauled potatos from the fields to CaWeLo,pulled on the scales, then to what we called the Potato Shed. It was a long open sided building. Rail road cars on one side and unloading dock for trucks on the other side.This is where they sorted (Culled)the potatos,put them in 100 pound sacks and into box cars. Your Dad and my Dad were called Swampers. Usually a kid like me would drive the truck in the field, One swamper would walk along side the truck,picking up and throwing the sacks of potatos to the other swamper catching and stacking them on the flatbed. The sacks weighed about 60 pounds with enough loose sack at the top to grab with the hands.When the swamper on the truck threw the sack in place, the flap went over the top of the sack next to it so when the next row went down, they were all tied together. I say all this because these young men walked at a fast pace flipping those sacks like they were filled with cotton. Load after load, day after day. They could put five to six tons on a ton and a half flatbed truck without stopping. They rested on the way to the shed. Unless there was a breakdown at the shed, the trucks moved in and out without much wait, but during the lunch hour, the trucks backed up. Dice games would be going in little groups, but when you had that many young men built like Arnold Swarts somebody, and a lot of pretty girls that worked in the shed watching, these guys still had enough energy to put on a show. It was all for fun but a site to see. Bare fists,sluging it out.


Johnny Q JohnQW@yahoo.com Fri Aug 24 09:31:28 PDT 2001

What were Jerry's lightest and heaviest weights during his career? Did Mike ever fight as a heavyweight?


James Quarry boxerquarry@netscape.net Thu Aug 23 17:28:45 PDT 2001

My father was born in Oklahoma. He came to Calif. around 1942. The Shafter. He had been fighting in Texas. He was 20 when he married my Mom. We were told he could not make it as a fighter because of a skin disorder. Some time after 1946 he move to Alaska for work and left my mom in shafter, pregnant with my sister Dianna. As I said before I was two. I remember going to a boxing arena so he could fight. For some reason it never came off. So we really never got to see him fight. Throught the years I did see his style. Many years ago a fight named Pete Radamacher fought Floyd Patterson for the title in his first pro. fight. He had won the Olympics. Of course Patterson beat him. His style was much like my Dad. His chin tucked behind his shoulder and his left are was kept very low. This made him real sneaky and hard to get a clean shot to the chin. I remember bragging to my friends when I was 16. I felt I could take the old man. I kept after him for a week to get in the ring with me. Dad was a boxing coach at the Boys Club in El Cerrito, Calif. He decked me three time in the first round. After that. I knew, I had made a mistake. My friends teased me for along time after that. Boxing was our way of life. Me being the oldest was the one to be the fighter. Jerry was really my sparring partner. I was 13 months older and a head taller than Jerry. He never really had a chance. However he did grow up. When he won the Golden Gloves in 1965. That was the last time I was able to handle Jerry. I can say, I was the only person to knock him out for the count. Of course I never tell anyone he was only 13 years old.


Sabrina Quarry-Porter SabrinaLPorter@aol.com Thu Aug 23 06:33:41 PDT 2001

JUST WANTED TO SAY GOOD-BYE TO EVERYONE IN MY FAMILY.I WILL BE LEAVING FOR FLORIDA ON SUNDAY AUGUST 26TH.I LOVE AND MISS YOU ALL VERY MUCH.WHEN I GET SETTLED I WILL SEND YOU NEW ADDRESS AND PHONE NUMBER.....GLAD TO SEE THE WEBSITE IS BACK TO NORMAL WITHOUT ALL THE BICKERING BACK AND FORTH....MR.KEENER THANK YOU FOR THE STORY ABOUT MY GRANDFATHER, I ALWAYS WONDERED WHY HE HAD HARD LUCK TATTOED ON HIS HANDS AND NOW I KNOW....EVERYONE TAKE CARE......SABRINA


steve smav4@aol.com Wed Aug 22 18:56:29 PDT 2001

Jerry was a true warrior that always gave everything... You are an inspiration to us all... I know that he is in a better place with JESUS. Take care and God bless. steve.


Clyne Keener clynek@myexcel.com Tue Aug 21 22:15:35 PDT 2001

Kent! Thanks for your insite on my father,Henry Keener or Hank as everybody called him. Yes, I agree that he and Jack Quarry had a lot in common. Those were tough times, When you think about it, we won the Big War with the people of that era. I don't remember when Dad and Jack met or how long they worked together. I don't know where Jack came from. We came out from Okla. around 1938 or 39. A lot of folks had been moving out but Dad hadn't made up his mind until one day while I was in bed sick with a bad cold. Mom had made up a mixture of Coal oil (kerosene),Turpentine and grease. She set it on the hot stove to warm it up. The glass bowl broke. There was a big ball of fire and the whole house went up in flames. We lost everything. Oh,by the way,The mixture was to rub on my chest. Dad worked in the oil fields, but that did it, we headed for Calif. There was a joke at that time,How can you tell a rich Okie from a poor Okie? A poor Okie has one mattress on top of his car, a rich Okie has two. We had none, I don't know what that ment. Kinfolks and friends gave us a few things we needed.Mom never apposed Dad,He made all the decisions. No,..I can't be too hard on my Dad, could I have done any better?. I would like to know how and why Jack came to Calif. HARD LUCK must have been one reason.


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Tue Aug 21 13:25:45 PDT 2001

Clyne, You must realize that your father was just passing along what he knew and that was you never back down from a fight as it, in his mind, makes you look weak and it encourages aggresive people to walk all over you. There is actually some truth to that as I have always walked away from fights and I have been picked on at times by people I would end up knocking the crap out of when they backed me into a corner and I had to fight my way out. Your stories give us insight on what the Quarrys went through growing up as your father and Jack Quarry seem to be very similar people. We welcome any input you have.


Clyne Keener clynek@myexcel.com Tue Aug 21 01:35:41 PDT 2001

Angelo! I can read the excitment in your letter, you love the sport and that's great. My father had his ear to the radio when the big fights were on, so we all knew the big names. My dad was honest,hard working and tough as nails. He told his four boys,"There are too many liers in this world and I ain't raising any of them". He managed to turn me 180 Degrees in some of the things he loved the most. He was a heavy smoker,drinker,fighter and he could sit for hours and even days waiting for a fish to bite his hook. No talking, skipping a rock across the water. You boys be quiet, you are scaring the fish. I grew up not smoking,drinking and after leaving home,not fighting (or fishing).All four boys left home before their 18th birthday. I guess you could call it leaving home. When the car was packed for the next move, I told them I was not going, Dad drove away. We lived in "Okie Camps" and fighting was THE intertainment. What I couldn't take was the"If someone starts a fight with you and you don't fight,I will whip you". I was a skinny kid, I couldn't whip anybody. One time a family at the other end of the camp sent word that I was challenged to a fight. Mom and my little brother (Pat) was the only ones home and they went with me, I didn't know who I would be fighting until I got there. I knew him, I liked him and he liked me. He didn't want to fight anymore then I did. The croud gathered around and with bare fists we started. The sun was high in the sky when we started and car lights were on when we finished. It was to end when one was down and couldn't get up. We were both down and couldn't get up. That was dumb,real dumb. Sorry to dump on you Angelo, It sure took me a long time to give you a simple No, Huh. I passed along a lot of good from my father to my children. Take care Angelo and I hope we can chat again. Clyne Keener


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Mon Aug 20 19:27:52 PDT 2001

Clyne: Were you a boxing fan back then? I'd like to hear about some of the heavyweights you've seen through the years and classic fights you've seen.


James Quarry boxerquarry@netscape.net Mon Aug 20 06:38:53 PDT 2001

Hello Clyne; We are very thankfull for your story. We are also happy that you are learning the computer. Please come back with more stories. I was only two at the time you speak of. However, I remember Shafter and Smith's Corner very well. My mother still owns a house in Shafter. As you know, Jerry is buried in Shafter.


Clyne Keener clynek@myexcel.com Mon Aug 20 00:48:42 PDT 2001

A warm hello to the Quarry family. My father was Henry Keener, Jack and my dad worked together, drank together and fought together. We lived at Shafter, CA , A place called Smith's Corner. My dad had two trucks that Dad and Jack hauled potatos with. The year was around 1946, I was about 15 years old. Why do I remember ? Because I am the one that tatooed HARD LUCK on Jacks hands. We lived in a small trailer, ( Mom and Dad had 4 boys ) I think I know how the Quarry boys felt. My dad told us if we ever started a fight, he would whip us, but if someone started a fight with us and we did'nt fight them, he would whip us. Jack came home with dad one night, they had been drinking and still had a bottle with them. We had already made the table into a bed that us boys slept on, so Jack sat on the edge of the bed. Jack was feeling sorry for himself and telling us that he had had nothing but hard luck all his life. He had seen me tatooing, nothing fancy, just printing a name, etc. on someone. I used a sewing needle with thread wound around it close to the point. I dipped it in India Ink. The thread stopped the needle from going too far in and it soaked up ink. Jack said, Clyne I want you to print in big letters, HARD LUCK on my fingers, so when I double up my fists people will see HARD LUCK. It took a long time, I did the whole thing without stopping. He sat there, still talking, taking a drink now and then with sweat running down his face. I am 70 years old now, learning to use the computer and serfing the net. Clyne Keener clynek@myexcel.com


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Sun Aug 19 20:06:17 PDT 2001

Karl: Okay, now tell us what you REALLY think! Well, it just goes to show you that different people have different experiences. I never met Mr. Shavers, but several people I correspond with have met him, and claim that he'll talk boxing with fans and shoot the breeze like a regular guy. Then, there was your experience where he came off like an a-hole. Weird.


James Quarry TJQF Sun Aug 19 07:45:47 PDT 2001

Jerry's weight for Bailey was the same as the Bodell fight. No clue on Bailey's weight.


James Quarry TJQF Sun Aug 19 07:33:41 PDT 2001

Adam; You asked if I thought that Jerry could have won over Ken Norton during this time period? I do know that Jerry would have had a better chance than he did, when he did fight Norton! Styles make fights. Norton seemed to have Jerry's style figured out. I say this. I feel the results would have been different if Jerry would have fought Norton instead of Lyle. Jerry only had 10 days notice for the Norton fight. He had just come off one of the worst loses against Smokin Joe Frazier in thier second fight.


Adam Doyle . Sun Aug 19 03:56:29 PDT 2001

Dear James, just wondering. Jerry was really o n the ball for his 1973 match with Ron Lyle. Do you think that THAT Jerry Quarry could have beaten Kean Norton? Best wishes.


Johnny Q JohnQW@yahoo.com Thu Jul 26 21:47:39 PDT 2001

Kent, I didn't mean in any way to dis Norton. I really wanted him to win the fight, and could not understand why he didn't get past Holmes, who looked to me like just a second generation Ali. In retrospect it's easy to understand however that these two were very closely matched. Holmes was underestimated, and both were great fighters.


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Thu Jul 26 20:25:53 PDT 2001

Johnny Q, sure Ali had slipped as far as his skills were concerned in later fights, but you forget that the fights in question, Ali/Young, Ali/Shavers,and Ali/Norton were close (of these three, I think Norton pulled out a victory). So if one fighter or the other had won, there would have been complaints about the scoring. Also, to include the Holmes/Norton fight in your analogy of a champion looking bad compared to a challenger not looking so great, is not fair because that was a great fight and it was a shame that either fighter had to lose. Both Holmes and Norton can hold their heads high knowing that they put on a gallant effort.


Johnny Q. JohnQW@yahoo.com Thu Jul 26 15:49:03 PDT 2001

Just as in our election system, when the numbers get too close, the system is likely to fail. As has been written many times, after Manila, Ali wasn't winning fights as before. He was doing what he needed to get by, and the judges were generous. Someone once said the challenger has to "take the title" if he wants the championship. Unfortunately it doesn't always work out that way. In fights like Norton-Holmes, Hagler-Leonard, De La Hoya-Trinidad, the decisions were more about how bad the champion looked rather than how great the challenger was.


* * Wed Jul 25 14:58:01 PDT 2001

*


kookooclock kookooclock000@yahoo.com Tue Jul 24 10:00:43 PDT 2001

Come off of it jp & dks, this is the wrong board for all your black history discusions.. Kent,, stop agreeing with this nut.. Blacks are always blaming whitey.. They prey on each other.. no help needed from whitey... I'm tired of this same old argument... Your ruffling my feathers .. coo coo coo


JP JPierceprivate@hotmail.com Sun Jul 22 07:22:21 PDT 2001

Either you can't lose titles on close decisions or you can. On the one hand you had Ali keeping the titles despite possibly losing both fights to Norton and Young because you felt they weren't dominant enough. Then in the same breath you state Holmes deserves the title. You can't have it both ways Angelo. All 3 judges had the fight 114-113, 114-113, 114-113. Split for Holmes. You can't get any closer than this unless you have a draw. This proves beyond a doubt that the fight could have gone either way (again I had Norton winning by a tad despite early lead by Holmes). The double standard on this issue is obvious with Ali fans. Any one else with an opinion on this issue?


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Sat Jul 21 14:29:41 PDT 2001

Jimmy D, yes Mike Weaver deserves a lot of respect. A top 10 rating in any poll, I don't know about that, but respect for sure. Like we said earlier, a real life "Rocky" story. I know what you mean about the Weaver/Coetzee fight. A hostile very pro Coetzee crowd and a tough bout to go with it. As I remember, Weaver was behind in the early rounds, absorbing a lot of Coetzee's so called "bionic" punches, only to come back and knock out Coetzee in about the 12th round. Weaver did put on a fine performance as he did when he gave Holmes all he could handle maybe a couple of years earlier in his first title try (I don't remember what year that occured).


JIMMY DORSEY RONNYRAINS@YAHOO.COM Sat Jul 21 11:01:18 PDT 2001

BROTHER DKS: I KNOW THE BOBICK-COONEY THING. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO EXPLAIN YURSELF TO ME. I FIGURE MY FIRST 9 PICKS WERE RIGHT ON THE MONEY. I COULD NOT COME UP WITH A nUMBER 10. THE TRUTH IS DOKES WaS VERY VERY QUICK IN HIS PRIME. EVEEN ALI SAID THAT. AND DEVELOPED POWER ALONG THE WAY. AS FAR AS WEAVER IS CONCERNED. THAT KIDD WENT ALONG WAY WITH NEVER EVEN HAD AN AMATEUR BOUT. (THEY THRU HIM TO THE WOLVES). MADE A LOTTA MULLA ON HIM IF YOU WANT TO GET TECHNICAL. BRO DKS DID YOU EVER SEE THE WEAVER-COETZEE BOUT IN jOHANNESBURG? THEY ABSOLUTE WORST PLACE TO LIVE ON EARTH. I THINK IF YOU SAW THE BOUT AND KNEW THE CIRCUMSTANCES. HOPEFULLY YOU WOULD HAVE MORE RESPECT FOR MR.WEAVER. I KNOW I'M A CALIFORNIAN AND I MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIASED IN MY RESPECT FOR MIKE WEAVER. (WHERE'S JACK O'HALLORAN WHEN YOU NEED HIM?//) MIKE QUARRY WON EVERY ROUND AGAINST PIERRE FOURIE BUT WERE IN JOHANNSBURG. LOOK WHO GOT THE TITLE FIGHT!! TELL ME DKS WHO WOULD YOUR NO.10 BE FOR THE 70'S (I MIGHT AGREE WITH YOU). EVERYBODY TAKE CARE! (I'M BACK ON THE ROOF)


Mr. Jimmy boxerquarry Sat Jul 21 05:32:22 PDT 2001

When Jerry and I were kids. We fought each other 7 times in the Junior golden gloves. Jerry had 5 wins and 2 draws. The reason we fought each other was because we were very good as kids. So when we got into these tournaments we wound up fighting each other through the process of elimination. It was always for the championship of our division, weight class. It was hard to take for me, losing I mean. I was never ever able to beat Jerry in front of an audience. I suppose that through the process of elimation brothers could be matched against each other. The odds would be against it. One more comment on this subject. Once in the ring, there are no friends or relatives only opponents.


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Fri Jul 20 18:58:58 PDT 2001

Mr. Jimmy, I know that often times in the pro ranks that brothers will not fight each other. I know that Leon and Michael Spinks would not have faced off even after Michael had jumped to heavyweight and I also doubt that the Klitchko brothers will ever fight each other. My question is if Jerry and Mike had both been heavyweights would they have fought each other even if they knew that it could cost one of them a chance at the title? Also would Bobby have fought either Jerry or Mike or both if they had still been on the scene and if they had all been heavyweights when he entered the profession? One more thing to DKS: I also did not see your last post before I wrote my post that was somewhat critical of you. I missed it the first time I went over the recent posts.


KENT ORION,ETC. Fri Jul 20 12:42:19 PDT 2001

DKS: THANK YOU FOR THE COMMENTS AT THE OTHER SITE. PLEASE TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THAT I HADN'T READ THEM YET WHEN I MADE MY LAST POST HERE. OUR PEACE STILL STANDS STRONG!


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Fri Jul 20 12:19:02 PDT 2001

I agree with everything Brother DKS just said and I don't wish to downplay the significance of what he stated because if we ignore the misjustice of the past, then we are doomed to repeat it. Blacks are not the only ones who have suffered at the hands of the white majority (and I know he said other minorities as well). In my own family, I am a mixture of German (jews), French, and American Indian, my indian ancestors were taken off of land next to a flowing river that gave them a good life for thousands of years, and put on a resevation that is mostly rocky desert because white Americans wanted their land, which in the 1800's was prime real estate. So for over 100 years the people suffered a meager existance. Most of the people moved off of the resevation land to try and make a better living in the cities (I have never lived on the reservation although my grandmother's brother did until passing recently and I have cousins that live there now). It wasn't until less than five years ago that the people started to make a living for themselves because of gaming on indian land here in California and even then a lot of the politicians tried to fight what the people did on land that is not even considered Califoria territory because of treaty stipulations. On the other side of the family I am a decendent of a German Jew who came to the United States in the mid 1800's and while I don't know of any persecution he or his family suffred for being Jewish, I do know that had he stayed in Germany, his family would have suffred greatly at the hands of the nazis and he probably had distant relatives that died at the hands of Hitler's sickos. I guess in a round about way I am putting my two cents in to show that all of us need to move away from mistreating other people because of race,creed, color and any other reason and also directly to DKS to show him that maybe he and I have more in common than he realizes. Oh and by the way DKS, DON'T BOTHER SIR TO E-MAIL ME WITH A SUPSICIANS YOU HAVE ABOUT ME BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO JUDGE ME. MY HEART IS IN THE RIGHT PLACE AND I MEAN NO HARM TO ANYONE. MY CONSCIENCE IS CLEAR. YOU HAVE BEEN DISRESPECTING ME AGAIN LATLEY AND I THINK THAT I HAVE BEEN POLITE TO YOU, MAYBE MORE SO THAN YOU DESERVE. I PROBABLY DID OVER REACT TO SOME OF YOUR COMMENTS BUT I THINK THAT SOMETIMES YOU DO THE SAME.


Br.DKS OpinionatedBrother@yahoo.com Fri Jul 20 11:36:57 PDT 2001

Any posts written as of now written under my name or other aliases attacking anyone is not from me. This is my last post till at least July 26th. Just in case someone tries to take advantage of my absence and stir up more trouble. As if we haven't had enough. As of now this opinionated (& too often misunderstood) Brother is out. Will try and respond to any posts directed towards me by Thursday July 26th. Therefore be patient. Since I'm not going to be here to read any posts. Thank you.


Br.DKS Opinonatedbrother@yahoo.com Fri Jul 20 11:27:41 PDT 2001

To everyone else will try and respond by July 26th. If i have the time to do so. I thought Ali won the 2nd fight fair (JP). Close shouldn't autimatically mean "lost". That would mean Norton lost to Jimmy Young. Let's not be hypocritical now. As for the 3rd only saw 1nce when I wasn't even into boxing. That time thought Norton won but Ali was finsihed anyways (still feel that way Karl). Should have quit after beating Foreman in Zaire (no Dem Rep. of Congo). Definately should've quit after Manila). That was definately the end as far as I'm concerned. To Karl read the book entitled "Ali:His Life And Times" by Thomas Houser. You'll see how they felt about Ali's condition during the Jimmy Young fight. For goodness sakes Ali was 230lbs plus for the match. Hardly fighting weight. Wish I could see that and the Shavers fight to judge myself. Same with the 3 Ali/Norton fights. Jimbo D. It's you who took the post out of context. I know you never mentioned Bobick and Cooney. You misunderstood the context (like Quarry Foundation participates have a bad habit of doing). You put what I believe were unworthy boxers on top ten. Mike Dokes. I accidently put Weaver. Still my point was made clear. Out of sarcasm I wrote "What next...Bobick and Cooney. Why? Because they too are weak. I was trying to show my feelings for what I believe was a very weak era. That's all I meant with the "bobick" statement. I hope this clears things up. Angelo, hope you're not mad about the "harmful" to Ali remark I made. What I meant was tha fans who can't be objective in turn harm Ali in that people will no longer give us credit when we defend him. A guy called Dave (aka top-10) attacked Ali fans (at another site) about this point. He claims Ali fans are just a bunch of people who defend the "myth" of Ali without strong arguments. By you and Kent 'Insisting' that Ali "really" won all the close fights I thought this was giving amunition to the anti-Ali critics. That's what I meant by harmful. Sorry if there was any misunderstanding to that comment. I should've explained right away. The problem is unlike the rest of you all, my computer use is restricted, thus I don't have the ability to participate on a day to day basis like you all. Thus it may be days before I have a chance to deal with a response. PS:Kent, I apologize for being rough in my last post towards you. That was uncalled for. You know my personality anyways, right? That's just the way I rant sometimes. Still some of the content was out of line. I did miss my work out session writting that post you know(lol). No,I'm not gorilla (from the other site). I never was. I would never have written those posts towards you. NEVER. I respect you too much to stoop that low. I'm almost 30 yrs old persuing a career as a Social Worker and Parole Officer (for Corrections Canada). If i have a prob with yourseld or others will adress as myself (Brother DKS). I'll email you sometime who I think it is and why when if and when I get the chance.


Joe Krause sadmspats@yahoo.com Fri Jul 20 11:18:34 PDT 2001

Evren, the reason why Ali was given close decisions can be argued in a variety of ways. I think that judges were mesmerized by Ali's skill and aura and he was given rounds that could be called even or for the other boxer. This is not suprising as true legends are often given such respect, same idea was when Michael Jordan would shoot a shot and a foul would be called even though he might not have been fouled. Ali was so smooth and seemed to be in control of a bout even if it was close. Norton just plain had Ali's number and they could have fought many times and it would have always been close post 1970. Before 1970 Ali would probably have won 10-5, 11-4 or something because Norton lost rounds whenever Ali danced or moved. I have watched each of those three fights many, many times and I find them to be even better every time.


Br.DKS OpinionatedBrother@yahoo.com Fri Jul 20 10:40:46 PDT 2001

How does all what I wrote tie into Ali? Well I was just showing why I believe that Ali had a right not to participate. The "atmosphere" was so very harsh towards Blacks back then. This is why I felt that it was unfair to then demad that Black soldiers participate in attacking, ironically to fight other brown skinned people. "Ain't no vietcong ever called me nigger". Ali stated. And he was right. White Americans had many times however. Afro-Americans had participated in all wars. You name it they were in it WWI, WWII, Korea, Civil War. Heck the 1st man to die for america was a Black man named Crispus Attucks at the hands of British Troops. Despite all this BTW a Black soldier LT (or pvt.can't remember) Lemuel was murdered in 1964 by white racists in an ambush. Two other soldiers were injured in the attack as they drove in their jeep. He was in the back in the states preparing for his return to vietnam. SEE WHAT I MEAN! I'll get you the exact date later on (I think june) so you can look it up yourself. Here is a Black soldier ready to serve his country abroad only to be lynched because of his skin colour at home. Is this fair I ask? Why then demand that Blacks serve in vietnam? This is one of my defences I use for why not only Ali but no sane Black man should've participated in the war. Not till they had their rights at home at least. They didn't back then. I know sveral black "negro" personalities were against Ali at the time. But they were ignorant. That goes for Joe Louis and the baseball player (name just slipped my mind) as well. Jim Brown, Karim Abdul-Jabbar, Bill Russell and a whole group of Black athletes supported Ali. Many Black youth as well (not just the militant ones either). If this were now or during the 80's I can see how people could call Ali a draft dodger but not in 1966. Especially after earlier claiming that Ali wasn't eligiable for draft in 1963. They never retested him to see if he were any way more qualified. Something fishy was definately afoot. The religious issue was just "1" of the reasons why Ali didn't participate slade. Don't forget Ali was a member of the nation of Islam sect at the time. Hardly a full rep. of orthodox Islam. The noi also thought whites were "devils" thus why serve them in the army and fight their wars. Defending my points will take all day. I'll return some other day to do so. I really must be going. I'll return by July 26th after my esssay (university paper) is done. If it goes further we can correspond through e'mail instead. Slade I wasn't attacking you but showing why I feel the way I do. I'll assume you were sincere in what you wrote. I just feel you missed the whole picture. And yes I know my history well. Especially Black history. I apologize to Mr.Quarry for writting all this. Didn't mean to be disrespectful. I'll try and keep strictly to boxing from now on.


Br.DKS OpinionatedBro@yahoo.com Fri Jul 20 09:57:53 PDT 2001

Slade=Sigh! This is getting frustrating and tiresome. What's really frustrating is I have no time to respond. During my absence so many new posts and accusations are written that it really becomes overwhelming. It would take all day to anwswer. All I'll say is my post clearly stated that the atmosphere of the 60's was very tension filled. Especially towards Afro-Americans and other minorities. Don't be ignorant slade. Please don't. Wether you want to just fight with me or not I don't know. Wher you grew up may have been an acception but doesn't represent America as a whole. Many civil rights groups struggled for over a century to get some rights by the time of the 60's. For God's sakes The Civil Rights Acts wasn't past till 1964 and the voting Rights Act til 1965. Before the '64 Bill was past Blacks didn't have the same rights to use public accomadation and other facilities (hotels, stores, restaurants etc). There was a separate white and "coloured" section like whites. Before 1965 Black americans didn't even have the right to vote unless they 1st took unnecessary tests (which 95% of those eligiable failed which made it clear it was designed to include as little Black participation as possible). This is very recent considering the nation was around 200 yrs old at the time. This is why I felt that Afro-Americans as whole were justified in not wanting to participate in the vietmnam war. Slade new this but decided to be deceitful with his my Why do you guys always dance around posts when I bring up a topic? Don't do that. You know very well that I was describing the atmosphere at the time. I know you're all white and very dedicated to your country but don't tell me you're not aware of the climate of america in the past. Don't tell me you're not aware of the brutal slaying of 14 year old Emmit Till in 1955. How the white jury knew the suspects were guilty but let them go anyways, only to have the killers confess and sell their story to Life magazine the slaying of 4 beautiful little Black girls in Sept.1963 at a Birmigham church, the white FBI knowing who the killers are but doing nothing till very recently (they convicted some 60yr old piece of trash about a month ago). The asssination of NAACP leader Medgar Evers at the hands of ultra racist Byron De La Beckwith (in front of his house with wife and child watching. How low can you go.) Of course you're aware of Martin Luther Kings assination. The 1964 riots in Harlem started because an off duty officer guns down a 15 yr old Black boy who posed no threat to him. The brutal attacks on "freedom riders" throughout the south because these people wanted to the right to use stores and other facilities. The murders of 3 civil rights workers in summer of 1964 at the hands of Mississipi police and Klan working together. The brutal slaying of rights activist Vernon Dalmer at his home by bombing (again racist law enforcement do nothing till very recently). The 1963 "Civil Rights March" on washington. (Kings famous) Free At Last spaeech. This is just a tiny fraction of the 60's reality. Before that we had the 1957 attempt by 9 Black students and the 1962 James Merideth attempt to integrate a highschool and university so Blacks could also have the right to attend(with that SOB senator standing on the front proclaiming "segregation now and forever). Both occasions the army had to be sent in for their protection. Don't ignore that and respond with in my neiborhood 8 sldiers died and..... That's good slade but that's the exception. And you were evading my point.


FRED FLINTSTONE FATFREDDY@BEDROCK.COM Fri Jul 20 04:47:50 PDT 2001

A YABBA DABBA DO AND A HAPPY ACK ACK A DAK TO YOU! HEY BARNEY, WHERE ARE YOU? SEND ME AN E MAIL.


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Thu Jul 19 17:24:37 PDT 2001

It's exactly what I was about to ask: If Ali "lost" all these fights, why did the judges keep awarding him the decisions? Was he paying them off? Was it a "conspiracy!" It seems so ridiculous that Ali bashers can go back 25 years to dredge up these fights he won, and say he lost them. No JP, he didn't lose three times to Norton. He lost once, in the first fight, and fought 11 rounds with a broken jaw. The third fight was close enough to go either way, but the Champion held the belt. The second fight was Ali's, plain and simple. Norton didn't dominate. If he had, he would have won the title like Spinks did. Leon Spinks outgunned Ali, showed guts, took chances, took punches and gave them back to Ali and then some. Spinks showed how you take the belt from a Champion. Norton didn't. Holmes beat Norton. I have the fight on tape. Holmes piled up a huge lead and held on. He showed more heart at the very end, though Norton put on a great performance.


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Thu Jul 19 13:18:29 PDT 2001

It is an interesting point that the Ali-Norton III fight that most of you guys thought Norton won was actually a unanimous decision. The scores were 8 rounds to 7, twice and 8-6-1. I believe that out of the three fights this was the only one that was a unanimous decision. To those of you out there who felt that Young and Shavers beat Ali I'd like to have your opinions on why the judges would have scored for Ali. Do you think that the judges were corrupt? Or do you think that Ali's popularity at that time won him decisions? Or could it be that Ali really won those fights??!!! I am going to watch the third Norton fight again soon and see what my scoring is...the last time I watched it I did'nt score round by round but was left with the feeling that Norton Had won..will post soon/ Evren


JIMMY DORSEY RONNYRAINS@YAHOO.COM Thu Jul 19 10:20:33 PDT 2001

JP THANKS FOR YOUR WELL WRITTEN POST AND I JUST ABOUT AGREE WITH EVERYTHING THAT YOU SAID. BEEN WORKING CONSTUCTION(roofing) AND HAVE BEEN OFF THE POST FOR A WHILE. NORTON WAS YOUR FIGHTER? I LIKED THEM ALL FROM THAT 70'S ERA. BUT I AM ORIGINALLY FROM THAT BAKERSFIELD AREA (DELANO,CA) CAESAR CHAVEZ AND THE GRAPE THING. SO THAT MAKES ME A CRAZY QUARRY FAN OF COURSE. I KNEW MIKE ON A FIRST NAME BASIS, WHAT A GREAT GUY. AND WHEN I KNEW HIM HE WAS VERY RELIGIOUS AND COURTEOS HE KINDA TREATED ME LIKE A LITTLE BROTHER. THE FIRST TIME I EVER MET HIM WAS AT A LITTLE RESTAURANT (QUARRY'S CORNER) HIS MOTHER OPERATED. IN BAKERSFIELD I WENT IN THERE WITHOUT A DIME ON ME (2O YR OLD). JUST TO MEET JERRY OR MIKE. MIKE HAPPEND TO BE IN THERE AND WE TALKED BOXING FOR 2 HOURS. HE AND HIS MOTHER ASKED ME IF I WANTED THE HOUSE SPECIAL,(ON THE HOUSE) I DECLINED LIKE A DUMMY AND MIKE TOLD ME TO TAKE SOME ICED TEA OR WE WERE GOING TO GO OUTSIDE, I OF COURSE TOOK THE TEA HA HA! AT THE TIME I WAS MAKING A LOTTA MONEY FOR A KID(WORKING THE OIL FIELDS)I EVEN DROVE A NEW TRANS AM THAT KILLED ME ON PAYMENTS, BUT DID NOT HAVE A DIME ON ME THAT DAY. THAT IS MY FAVORITE QUARRY-STORY I KNOW I WAS THERE. YA ALL TAKE CARE NOW YA HERE.


JP JPierceprivate@hotmail.com Thu Jul 19 07:59:33 PDT 2001

The Ali/Young was pretty close. I gave the edge to Young. Could've gone either way. Young didn't dominate Ali like Norton did in the later on however.


JP JPierceprivate@hotmail.com Thu Jul 19 07:35:23 PDT 2001

While scrolling down in past discussions one thing came up that interested me. Especially as a Norton fan. Either Angelo or Kent or others had claimed that neither Norton or Young had beaten Ali convincingly enough to win the title. That though they may have won they didn't dominate enough to take the title away from Ali. I feel the same can be said for Norton. He should never have lost his title to Holmes. Especially on a split decision. Never should title on a split decision. The fight was very close. I thought Norton won. Still was way too close to make Norton lose title. This official loss is what gives Norton a false reputation of being a paper champion. Any replies to this argument? Just saw the "twin" statement made by foolface. Absured. was out of town for some time visiting relatives and a very sick friend (cancer) had lttle to no time to participate on any forum. I must be a triplet or quintuplet as well since my views often match those of Kent, Angelo and others as well. If anyone is a siamese twin it is foolface and koo koo. I really don't want to get involved in this so will ignore the troublemakers from now on. Whomever the troublemakers may be.


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Wed Jul 18 23:46:01 PDT 2001

To Karl...I agree with what you say about Quarry, that was my point. I meant it was sad to see him on screen, young and healthy knowing now that he has passed away.Sorry for misunderstanding.Evren


Karl karlhegman@aol.com Wed Jul 18 21:53:07 PDT 2001

Hi everyone-To James; I saw the Camacho-Duran fight, and Hector won with his double jab and stiff lefts down the pipe off of it. Duran would throw a shot and fall in and hold-but looked good for a guy of 50. Hector is no longer a dancer and mover-Yet a thick broad shouldered fighter who minimizes his stance and footwork for getting his shots off. He looked well, and is still very formidable for anyone-He will tatoo Mr. Ayala if the San Antonio native overcomes his latest legal hurdle, which IMO is very doubtful. I disagree with Br. DKS in that Ali was in bad shape for the Jimmy Young fight-He may not have been cut muscularity-wise in the torso and appeared thick-But cardio-wise he was better than Young and finished the stronger-he forced the fight the whole way(Ali had a passion for carrot-cake and other sweets)and won that fight 8-5-2 IMO. I have to disagree with Evren in regards to the Shavers-Smith post-fight interview. I thought it was GREAT seeing JQ at his professional peak as a sports journalist and television personality! He was a good-looking and articulate young man and was praised by just about everyone connected with our sport for his unbiased and flowing commentary for CBS. JQ was the best commentator on TV in his era. Peace, Karl


Kent orion etc. Wed Jul 18 20:11:34 PDT 2001

Hey Foolface, what makes you think that I don't have a job? Maybe I am self employed or maybe I am rich and I don't need a job. Maybe I have enough to pay my bills. One thing for sure, I don't do anything illegal so I can hold my head up high. What I do is my business. One thing you are right about and that is Duran and Camacho are morons for contiuing boxing.


JP JPierceprivate@hotmail.com Wed Jul 18 19:14:32 PDT 2001

I'm not sure where Slade is from but where I lived was rough. I'll get off this topic. Still think America is the best place in the world to live.


JP JPierceprivate@hotmail.com Wed Jul 18 19:07:09 PDT 2001

Not that I want to get involved in this but I'll add my 2 cents on this issue as well. To Slade. From my reading of the DKS post I may see the point being made. Blacks were in fact treated very unfairly for many years in this country. I can attest to this. I grew up in Michigan. Detroit to be exact. It was rough here during the 50's and 60's. Though I'm too young to have lived through it (I was born in 1967) my parents have told me a lot. And it isn't pretty. My own father worked the meat factory in downtown Lansing (I think Malcolm X lived there). The segregation there was rough. Right up until I was around 5 (1972). Not too long ago. My uncle was a police officer down in Alabama. The South was even worse. He made it up to rank of seargeant. Sadly he himself participated many of the attacks on blacks down south. I resented him for many years for this. Before I get bogged down in all this I think that what DKS is getting at in his own way is that if blacks were treated so badly by whites why should they then be forced to fight for the very country that doesn't give them their rights. Let's face it. Until recently blacks and other minorities did not have many rights in this country. As a child growing up I will never forget what happened. Me and several of my friends black, white and latino were playing hookey from school. To make a long story short we did some things that got us in trouble with the law. The officers were very abusive towards my black and latino friends but not to me or my white friends. They were like "kids will be kids" with me but being mean and yelling racial epitah at the black and hispanic boys. The police even took them back home personally. They never did this to me. No doubt they wanted to humiliate the minority children. This was very frightning experience for me. I always thought of this as something happenning "down south" where my uncle had lived. I've asked my parents why we white people were like this. Why were we so mean to minorities. What did they ever do to us that made us treat them so bad? They could give no satisfactory answers. Writting about this has certainly brought back some painfull memories. I'm glad I'm living today. We still need improvements but it's still a heck of a lot better than my parents time. Even my childhood which isn't all that long ago was a stressful time in race relations. My father was ultra anti-Ali. Now he loves him. How times have changed.


foolface foolface2@yahoo.com Wed Jul 18 19:02:33 PDT 2001

hello boxing fans/ i see that kent still doesn't have a job/ must spend all day and night on the net/ jp and dks talk like their twins / I HAVE ONE COMMENT ABOUT DURAN AND CAMACHO / THEY ARE BOTH STUPID MORONS THAT ARE GOING TO END UP TALKING TO THEMSELVES/ GET THE HELL OUT OF BOXING!!


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Wed Jul 18 14:57:31 PDT 2001

Welcome back JP. I agree that out of the two opponents, Ali was more troublesome for Jerry than Frazier was. The topic we were discussing was what was the better period during Jerry's career 1967-69 or 1970-73 and when I said that beating Frazier was a tall order to fill it was in the context of that first time period. Jerry's bouts with Ali were during the second time period. Jerry's best chance of beating Frazier would have been in their first bout and as I have said before, slugging with Joe for the first two rounds in hopes of taking Joe out early,and then boxing and counter punching thereafter, would have been Jerry's best chance for victory. But even if he still couldn't beat Frazier, there is no shame in losing to one of the all time greats.


JP JPierceprivate@hotmail.com Wed Jul 18 13:45:38 PDT 2001

Befor things get out of hand, I'd like to add my 2 cents on some "boxing" (not bs fighting)topics. Firstly I'm the one DKS alluded to from the past as one of those who believe Ken Norton won all 3 fights with Ali. This is for those who may not be familiar wirh me. Yes I'm a big Norton fan. He's my favorite heavyweight. Very under-appriciated talent. Beat Ali all 3 fights (2 unofficially) while others were usually beaten by Ali. About Jerry Quarry. I've seen some of his fights and I'll tell you that to me Ali was a bigger problem than Frazier (I think Kent stated about Frazier). I found Quarry more compettitive with Frazier than Ali. Ali won all 10 rounds they faught (the closest being the 2nd round of the first fight). If not for bad strategy Quarry could've beaten Frazier in the 1st fight. He should never have slugged it out throughout the whole fight. That's Frazier's neighbourhood. Box Frazier like Ali did. But with Ali he looked totally outclassed. Like a whippen bag. I don't buy the excuse that Quarry and company came up with after the fight about him seeing his brother lose afecting him. I'm with DKS there. It must be remembered that Jerry himself insisted that Mike must fight on the undercard (according to media reports). It's illogical to then not expect that Mike might lose the fight. Was Mike expected to definately win? Would Quarry have lost to say, a Jack Bodell or Lorenzo Zannon after seeing Mike lose? No, instead I think that styles makes fights and that Ali was just too troublesome for Quarry. just as Ali in turn was troubled by Norton. And yes just as Norton was troubled by power punchers like Foreman and Shavers. Ali is the only fighter that I believe Quarry would never have beaten in 100 years. Out of 10 fights I pick Ali to win them all. Wether Quarry cut or not. Notice Quarry's problems getting away from Ali's fast hands. I do believe however that Quarry could've had some portion of the championship (NABF or a WBC or WBA) if not for the cuts or other cicumstances. We must remember that no boxer is perfect. Not even Ali or the P4P "greatest" Sugar Ray Robinson. The point in my this message was from what I saw I thought Quarry was more impressive against Frazier than Ali. Even in the 2nd Frazier fight you can see traces of competitiveness in the first two rounds. That is before the slaughter. What's so tragic about the 2nd Frazier loss was that Quarry was on a high. Winning six in a row and over two impressive boxers such as Shavers and Lyle. I guess Frazier and Ali were the hills Quarry could never conquer. No shame in that though since very few in heavyweight history could (let alone that 70's era). Curious. What if Ali and Frazier didn't exist as boxers during Quarry's time. Mmmmmmm? I'd like to give my greetings to some new participants. What's up Evren, Karl and Jimmy D. Of course good day to Kent, Angelo and the Quarry's. Yes, you too DKS. What's with this koo koo? The characters that prop up during my abscence.


James Quarry boxerquarry Wed Jul 18 07:14:32 PDT 2001

Did anyone see the Camacho vs Duran fight? If so, please comment.


kookooclock kookooclock000@yahoo.com Tue Jul 17 10:06:01 PDT 2001

I must say that the educated one is full of hate... He needs to go to the Ali site if he doesn't like it here... From what I've read in the past , he has no respect for anyone who is not like him.. I've said some things in the past, DKS IS A FILTHY RACIST TO HIS CORE!! go back to school.. this time learn somthing besides hate.... Oh no I have to leave again coo coo coo coo.......


Sonia Hathaway(Quarry) SHath2163@aol.com Tue Jul 17 06:00:24 PDT 2001

Why can't everyone just get along? Like I said before we were taught growing up, and I teach my children "if you have nothing nice to say you shouldn't say anything at all"


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Tue Jul 17 03:28:55 PDT 2001

I just wanted to add that while I listed Ali as winning 2 fights against Norton in the 1970's in the post in which I say that Ali was the best of the 70's, I was stating that Ali's record was impressive during that time (not that I thought he won the third fight). Even if Norton had officially won that fight, there is still no other heavyweight with a more impressive record during that time. I just wanted to set the record straight as I see that it could be interpreted as me saying I thought that he won the third Norton fight.


Slade info@ptctel.com Tue Jul 17 01:48:10 PDT 2001

BroDKS; Your postings on this Public forum are read by the public - don't be surprised OR offended if people read and respond to your comments....I too think Ali was "railroaded" with the change in draft classification. But what the HELL does the 1968 My Lai killing of innocent women and children have to do with it?. Ali's 1966 decision was based on religious grounds. The My Lai incident hit the news wires in 1969, 3 years after the 1966 Ali decison to decline the draft procedings. My Lai was directed by a very inept 2nd Lt Calley. The Vietnam war, although a GREATLY regretable action, was fought buy Americans like the Honorable Mr. Powell and the Honorable Mr. McCain.....Also, what's this stuff about "lynching blacks" to "fight in wars"....In my small town of 7,000 folks, 8 young kids lost there lives in that war between 1965 and 1972 - (5 white, 1 black, 1 guamanian, 1 hispanic) - they are GREATLY missed an honored yearly....Mr DKS, are you or have you ever been part of the Armed Forces?


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Mon Jul 16 23:45:14 PDT 2001

I think DKS is a 'dumb ass.' I also think you could do with a 'dikshonary' as well. Please don't think your the only one who's point of view is correct while continually slating other peolpe. It's not nice. By the way the offer of the interviews still stands. I'll even pay the post for you. Your a very aggressive and insulting person who should do a history check on himself.


Slade info@ptctel.com Mon Jul 16 23:08:24 PDT 2001

Any up-beat and positive things going on out there. I saw a 1970 ticket for the Ali-Quarry fight for sale on ebay a few weeks ago. It's amazing the things you can find on eBay.....Looking at old high school annuals, I noticed that Boxing was a common sport that was offered up til about 1956, even to rural schools. After the mid-1950's it seemed to have vanished from High Schools. The fast, agile, tough kid that wants to try boxing is pretty much out of luck in the rural areas.....I just read somewhere that Oscar generated the largest revenues for Pay-per-View fights this year with his most recent outing. I missed that fight, and I still don't know who it was he fought.....Anyone know if Jerry Quarry ever sparred with Larry Holmes, Chuck Wepner or Elmer Rush? Thanks


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Mon Jul 16 21:25:54 PDT 2001

DKS: one thing you don't give me credit for is that I was there and I saw the fights in question and all of the fights in question were close, including the Norton fight. You make a good point about giving Ali's critics ammunition by saying he won all of those controversial fights. I have never said that he won all of those fights but just that they were close(I believe Angelo said he won the Norton fight). Young may have landed more punches but his lack of aggresion and throwing soft punches and then running away cost him with the judges. While Shavers fought hard and landed the harder punches (not many people punched harder than him), Ali out landed him in punch count and he probably won more rounds--Joe Krause scored the fight a draw in his analysis of the fight at his web site. The point I am making is that even though his skills had faded, especially after Manila, Ali was still very competitive. I feel this adds to his legacy not detracts from it. I do have more time than you as I work out of my apartment and the computer is always handy and I can always take a break from business and visit the sites. HEY SORRY ABOUT YOUR WORKOUT. I HOPE YOU AREN'T TOO HARD ON YOUR PARTNERS.


Br.DKS OpinionatedBr@yahoo.com Mon Jul 16 17:23:32 PDT 2001

Mr.Apple, the reason why I don't respond quickly is unlike you I don't have the time to always be at a computer. Until i get my own personal one this will always be the case. I have a life besides just sitting at a keyboard all day. I can't help it if you and the others don't. And to think that I defended you against the likes of foolface. He always had it in for you. I told him to leave you the hell alone. I'm positive my attacks had some effect. Now that coo coo freak (who let it out of its cage) has picked up the torch. I'm beginning to wonder if foolface didn't have some valid point in his attacks on you. You sure are beginning to to get a bit suspicious. NOW DON'T BECOME A TIGHTASS AND PREACH "WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY SUSPICIOUS" blah , blah, blah. I'll tell you on my own time. Got it. I'll e-mail you so it's just between us (and not involve dumb-asses like evren...okay). THANKS TO YOU KENT I'VE MISSED MY WORK OUT AT THE GYM. HOW? BY SITTING AT THIS DAMN COMPUTER WRITTING THESE DAMN POSTS BECAUSE OF YOUR FLIPPEN IMPATIANCE WHICH LED TO MISSUNDERSTANDING (WHAT ELSE IS NEW) I'M VERY PISSED. THE GYM CLOSES AT 9PM. I WANT TO BREAK SOMETHING NOW!!! BREAK SOMEONE!!! DAMN I HATE MISSING A DAYS WORKOUT. I HAVE TO SWITCH MY ROUTINE TO ACCOMADATE MISSING TODAY. ARRRRRRRRRRRRGHH!!!! NOW I'LL LIFT MORE THAN EVER BEFORE OUT OF ANGER!!! I'll take it out my wrestling apponants. I got to do something to lesson my present rage. I'm so pissed. I can hardly think now. Dammit Apple look what you've inadvertanly done! AAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!!! Where's that coo coo freak. Now I really want to get him and make that species totally extinct. I thought that species died off years ago.


Br.DKS OpinionatedBrother@yahoo.com Mon Jul 16 16:56:00 PDT 2001

When I've had the time I went from boxing site to site. During this journey I see many fans and anti-Ali critics alike. When I challenge the critics one of the things that they usually complain about is that Ali fans are extreemly blinded by the myth that has built around him. In other words Ali isn't really that talented but is hyped up as so. A guy named top-10 was one of those people. I myself used good sound arguments (which is hard to do on this site because of you bone-heads). Another individual calling himself 6-pack congradulated me on my sound arguments claiming that "you're not just one of those blind followers" etc. Now I come to this site and see that very problem. I find that Kent and Angelo (and probably the whole Quarry foundation) have a tendancy to be blind to their idols. The term I like to use is heads up their idols asses. Heck sometimes I feel that people at this site need some toilet paper (LOL, LOL, LOL) (ha ha ha ha). To say that Ali won all those contreversial fights is blindness of a destructive kind. THIS GIVES AMUNITION TO THOSE SAME CRITICS WHO PUT ALI'S LEGACY DOWN! Angelo and Kent should realize this. Instead of arguing "if" he really beat Young and Norton in the 3rd fight (which he most likely didn't) a smart Ali fan would argue why he lost or did so poorly. In the case of Young Ali was far overweight and in bad shape. Fact is Ali was never the same after he beat Foreman. Just look at the lackluster performance against Chuck Wepner and Ron Lyle and it becaomes more obvious. Ali only challenged Frazier because he thought Frazier was washed up as he. Ali was in for a surprise. Ali always had a tendancy to not be motivated for every fight. In fact he was motivated for very few. The 3rd Norton fight (again which I thought he clearly lost when I saw it) was not 1 of them. My other argument (as I've stated before) is that Ali was finished as a competitive fighter after the "Thrilla in Manilla" fight. My point is true fans shouldn't just be blind. Stop trying to "force" wins which are not there. I admit to never seeing Ali-Young or Ali-Shavers however from what I've read the Young fight was highly controversial while the Shavers win was close but legitimate. Again Shavers was out on his feet in the final minute of rd 15. PS: In my rant I meant to put "in the same breath the american government want Blacks to fight, die and kill for them. I wrote that Kent and Angelo were "dangerous fans". Notice I said fans cause I still recognised them as such. Also I wrote "how they are dangerous to Ali's...this can mean anything. Sadly foolish Apple had to jump the gun and make it more than I meant it be. Oh Apple, one more thing, I wrote that 1967-69 would've been his best years (not 66-67). This exactly what I mean by you not reading my posts properly.


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Mon Jul 16 16:35:27 PDT 2001

Easy Tiger ! Wrong in every presumption. Hey man. We must stop clashing like this..guess it's my fault. I think you underestimate my feelings and standpoint on Ali..I believe it is a lot closer to yours than you may imagine. Muhammad is and always will be my idol..I met him once in 1994 in London at the Henry Cooper Gym. After waiting for close on three hours in freezing weather I finally got the chance to come face to face with Ali. I was only 20 at the time and was so Awestruck as I faced off in a mock stareout !! Looking directly into his eyes was truly an awesome experience, one that was hard to explain. My thoughts at that very moment were quite superficial as the only thing that enetered my mind was the reflections of old opponents eyes in his and the amount of History that they had seen. I was blown away. DKS, I apologize to you (though u probably don't care)I have some excellent interviews with Ali which I think you would really enjoy. One is on a 1967 show where Ali is looking superbly handsome in colour and talks about his draft situation. Another is on the Parkinson show from 1974 when Ali gives his religious views in a most explosive interview. If you would like a copy of them DKS contact me on my e mail address. Regards, Evren.


Br.DKS OpinionatedBrother@yahoo.com Mon Jul 16 16:06:49 PDT 2001

Since you're all jumping the gun as usual I will write now that I have the time. Evren, mind your buisiness and get off my back. I was dealing with Kent and not a dumb-ass like you. I respect Ali's stance about not join while WHITE IGNORAMOUS like Evren think Ali should've joined the destructive war where innocent Vietnamese civilians were murdered (yes murdered) by american troops. 1 well documented massacre took place in March of 1968. Nearly all the 200 + dead were women, children and the ederly. Those massacred were southern vitnamese whom the americans were supposed to be garding. They tried to cover up their atrocity. Blacks are being lynched in America left right and centre (remember the 4 beautiful Black girls at the Birmingham church in 1963?) but then in the same breath want Blacks to fight, kill and die for them abroad IS HYPOCRACY PAR EXCELLANCE!!! So GO TO HELL Evren. You don't know me and I never converse with you accept 1nce (some time ago). This is just 1 site so I don't care if people don't like how I "represent" Ali. Especially all the white jabroni critics. I defend Ali as I see fit not how jabroni's feel I should. I do a damn good job of it too (look at my past defence in 2000, also other sites). So you can take that keyboard and shove it up your jabronified ass evren-boy. Then again you'd probably enjoy it (blasted freak). I'll just ignore so you're wasting your time responding.


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Mon Jul 16 13:39:31 PDT 2001

With all due respect to Mr Appel, any comments that he may or may have not made are hardly going to destroy Muhammad Ali's legacy. Please! I think people like DKS representing this site as an Ali fan is far more detremental.(Not sure I spelt that correctly). Regarding Quarry's prime; It is a very close call. I feel that the younger version had more fire and desire along with speed but the elder version still had 90% of these qualities but with a more experienced head on his wide shoulders. Verdict: Elder Quarry by split decision !!!


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Mon Jul 16 12:27:15 PDT 2001

Yes, DKS I will carefully read your comments as to why you say that I am destructive to Ali's legacy. I still have no idea as to why you say this.


Br.DKS OpinionatedBrother@yahoo.com Mon Jul 16 09:35:52 PDT 2001

Hey "Pastor" Appel, ARE YOU DONE WITH THE FLIPPEN PREACHIN? DO YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW WHAT I MEANT ABOUT YOU (AND ANGELO) BEAING DESTUCTIVE TO ALI'S LEGACY? WHAT I MEANT BY THAT STATEMENT. I HOPE YOU ARE. WILL YOU ACTUALLY STAY ON THAT FAT BEHIND (O WHAT PASSES FOR A BEHIND) OF YOURS AND PATIENTLY READ BEFORE YOU DAMN WELL COMMENT FOR 1NCE?!? I HOPE SO. When you're ready I'll be more than glad to provide my answer. Lord, what a mountain Kent loves to make with his posts. To bad he does so out of context.


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Sun Jul 15 18:44:58 PDT 2001

A while back we were discussing what the best period of Jerry's career was. Some of the people thought that 1967-1969 was his best and others felt that the period of 1970-1973 was the best. Jerry had 15 wins and 2 losses during 1970-1973 with wins over Ron Lyle, Earnie Shavers, and Mac Foster. The two losses were at the hands of Muhammed Ali. I feel that Jerry was bigger and stronger during this period with more experience and that he was a better over all fighter. With the exception of a lousy performance against Ali in their second fight, Jerry looked very good in most of the other bouts (he was cut early in the first Ali fight but he appeared more competitive in that first fight). In the period of 1967-1969 Jerry was faster and he had some good wins over Patterson and Spencer in the WBA tournament, but he wasn't as consistant as he was in the later period. He had a record of 11 wins, 3 losses, and 1 draw during this earlier period (the draw to Patterson in their first fight). His losses were to Jimmy Ellis, Joe Frazier, and George Chuvalo. If he had won at least two of the fights; against Chuvalo and Ellis, fights that most of us think that he should have won, or if he had won re-matches against these two fighters, then I would say that the earlier period was the best of his career. I still am not sure that he could have ever beaten Frazier though. That is a pretty high order to fill!


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Fri Jul 13 14:46:12 PDT 2001

Just watched a new copy of the Earnie Shavers vs Howard Smith fight from 1977 and was really pleased that the interview was left on. Jerry interviewing Shavers was strange as they were former opponents, but both were very polite to one another and their mutual respect was most evident. I must admit it was sad seeing Jerry on film in a non fighting context. It's sad to see anyone on film once they have moved on. My best wishes to the Quarry family.


charles anderson ctjjandfam@aol.com Fri Jul 13 09:13:34 PDT 2001

did jerry consider any of the former heavyweights as good friends of his and did he ever have any contact with any of them after he got sick? one more thing, i would like to see the lyle fight on espn classic. is there any chance?


Joe Krause sadmspats@yahoo.com Fri Jul 13 06:31:31 PDT 2001

I have actually been impressed with CSN lately. When they showed the Liston-Machen bout I was thrilled as I never before found that available. I do understand your comments though, even though I still find myself watching Ali-Foreman every time it's on even though I have it on tape.


Johnny Q. JohnQW@yahoo.com Wed Jul 11 08:47:09 PDT 2001

The video clip from the Forum proves one thing for sure, they have the Quarry-Corletti fight, and it's probably in the same mint condition as the Foreman-Gullick broadcast. The challenge is getting CSN to show the fight. After CSN was bought by ESPN and grafted into it's splashy format, the CSN programming went from showing extended footage of all rare and historical sports events, to showing only the big names, games and fights we've seen a million times. I have some tapes of early CSN when they were showing Quarry-Shavers and other rare and non-title fights. They were dong a great job. Now it's a slew of commercials between every round, banners running across the screen, and Cosell screaming "Down goes Frazier!" every hour of every day. I propose a letter campaign to CSN asking them to show more of Jerry and Mike's winning fights. How about Monzon, Naples, Muniz, Olvaries, Foster, (young) Duran, Buchanan and other great fighters of the period? A lot of us would like to see the fighters again, and younger viewers would enjoy discovering there was more to the 70s boxing than (bless them) Ali and Foreman. I'll find the CSN address and post it back here.


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Tue Jul 10 15:06:02 PDT 2001

Why does race continually crop as a point of discussion with the same people? I agree that Quarry would have been too good all round in ability for Morrison and stopped him in mid to late rounds in what would of, I'm sure, been a really entertaining shoot out. A case of not 'who's the better pitcher but the better catcher.' The opinions of Karl, regarding the Ali bouts in question, were spot on!


kookooclock kookooclock000@yahoo.com Tue Jul 10 14:20:15 PDT 2001

I can't believe you people your all over the place.. one minute Quarry's a racist.. next he's in the ring with that low life Tommy Morrison... only thing Morrison had was a good left hook.. LETS BE REAL HERE THERE WAS A LOT OF CRAP SAID BEFORE SOME OF QUARRYS FIGHTS.. BUT HE'S SURE AS HELL WAS NOT A RACIST IN ANY SHAPE OR FORM... WHOEVER SAID HE WAS IS THE TRUE RACIST....


JIMMY DORSEY RONNYRAINS@YAHOO.COM Tue Jul 10 14:03:16 PDT 2001

KENT DID YOU SEE THE NEW CLIP OF THE MONTH. APRIL 10,1972 FOREMAN-GULLICK AT THE INGLEWOOD FORUM? THAT IS THE SAME ONE I SAW "LIVE" WHERE THEY INTERVIEWED JERRY,ON HIS UPCOMING BOUT WITH CORLETTI,A WEEK LATER,NOW IT LOOKS LIKE MAYBE I WAS RIGHT (BOUT BEING AT THE FORUM).ON THE SUBJECT CORLETTI TRAINED DOWN TO 202 AND HAD GAVE BUGNER A GOOD GO BEFORE THAT. BUT AFTER JERRY BANGED HIM OUT IN ONE ROUND HE WAS A BUM. EVERYTIME JERRY BEAT AN OPPONENT THEY SUDDENLY WERE "BUMS". THEY LA PRESS WAS ESPECIALLY HARD ON JERRY. I NEVER COULD UNDERSTAND IT EITHER. I ALSO SAW THE QUARRY-WOODY BOUT IN VEGAS I COULD NOT BELEIVE HOW FAST BOTH WERE THEY WERE THROWIMG BOMBS FOR TWO ROUNDS. FOR WOODY IT WAS HIS LAST SHOT AT A CONTENDER AND TRIED TO MAKE THE MOST OF IT. TAKE CARE!


Karl karlhegman@aol.com Tue Jul 10 11:00:29 PDT 2001

To follow up on a couple of points made by Br. DKS: Shavers was out on his feet at the end of the fight vs. Ali- I thought Ali won that by 9 to 6: Young scored more punches than Ali, and made him look bad for sure-But Jimmy never came close to actually taking the title away from Muhammad (Remember him getting a standing eight count for ducking through the ropes?) I do feel Kenny did beat Ali fair and square in their third fight-But Ken had no one to blame but himself for that one. He should have been in there in the last round throwing everthing he had for three full minutes-But elected to blow the first two and a half minutes of that one, and the judges had it much closer than most and it cost him. Man, I liked Cooper-but I thought that Ellis would have really whacked him out with that booming right of his. As for JQ vs. Morrison? At his peak, I don't think Tommy makes it out of round three. Cheers, Karl


JIMMY DORSEY RONNYRAINS@YAHOO.COM Tue Jul 10 08:51:07 PDT 2001

One more thing about Morrison although no great fighter (he was improving before Lewis took him out with insulting ease). I know of at least 3 fights wwhere his power alone pulled victory out of the clutchess of defeat JOE HIPP, CARL "THE TRUTH" wILLIAMS AND OF COURSE RAZOR RUDDOCK FOR YET ANOTHER CHEESE TITLE I THINK IBC. NO GREAT FIGHTER BUT A TERRIFIC PUNCHER FOR SURE.


JIMMY DORSEY RONNYRAINS@yahoo.com Tue Jul 10 08:36:40 PDT 2001

ohhhhh! A wise guy huhhhhh! No Kent i was also gonna ask ya to do the Corletti thing too. But i was to embarrased ha ha. Its to bad because when i lived in Kern county I could have went to the Libraries and their microfilms and looked up Jerry's pro debut ETC. Back here it is the New york Times and they only handled Jerry's Big fights of course. I will say this the ringside at they old MSG voted 16-8-4 that Jerry was robbed against Tony Alongi. As far as Morrison is concerned if he couldn"t take a punch any better than he did. I can't see Jerry having too much problems .Although he was fast and had that great Left hook. JERRY ALWAYS BEAT ONE-DIMINSIONAL fighter's. Take care!


Kent orion etc. Tue Jul 10 03:20:25 PDT 2001

Jimmy D. I will try and visit a library and see if I can find the article you want sometime soon when time permits. I also want to see if I can find a local write up on the Corletti fight. All I know is that my dad took me to see that fight and I thought it was at the Olimpic Auditorium, downtown L.A. I AM NOT GOING AROUND IN CIRCLES ABOUT THAT ONE AGAIN-HEY MOE!


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Tue Jul 10 02:50:49 PDT 2001

DKS, how in the world could I be harmful to Ali's legacy? I have never attacked Ali as a person or as a fighter. I have just stated my opionon that Ali was a one of a kind athlete and that he was the best of the 1970's and I believe the 1960's as well. Just because I believe that Ali was the best of the 70's, doesn't mean that I don't agree that the period you state, 1966-67, is or would have been the best of his career. I was not a big fan of Ali when I was growin up, and I rooted against Ali for most of his major fights, but I have to give credit where credit is due. Ali is the best I have seen in my lifetime. I didn't have any kind of Adgenda or bias against Ali. I was just a kid in the late 1960's and 70's and I knew nothing about "the politics" surrounding his career when the fights took place. I just thought he had a big mouth and I bought into his gimmick of shooting his mouth off before a fight(which he did to boost ticket sales and interest in his fights). About the only time I ever rooted for Ali was probably against foreign fighters like Bugner (an American against a Brit)and against Foreman (because he was an underdog)--I am too young to remember the Liston fight when it happened, but I probably would have rooted for Ali in that one too. Because even though Liston seemed to be the one who should have able to shut "The lip's" mouth, Liston was a very scary prescence and a lot of people were concerned for Ali's safety going into the fight. DKS, I am totally shocked that you would say I am harmful to Ali. IF ALI HIMSELF EVER READ ANY OF MY WORDS ABOUT HIM, HE WOULD KNOW THAT I HAVE A LOT OF RESPECT FOR HIM. I am waiting to see why you think I harm his legacy. I don't have a clue as to why you would say this. I promise to carefully read your words before responding (you seem to believe that I sometimes just jump on what you say when we disagree instead of rationally reading and then responding). PS, I hope you are able to respond quickly as it is difficult to go back to old subjects if we are onto a new topic.


charles anderson ctjjandfam@aol.com Mon Jul 9 20:15:08 PDT 2001

i would also agree that jerry would k.o. tommy. i also think it would a heck of a fight with lots of exitement. probaly as furious as the first fight with smokin joe. tommy could have been champ if he had taken life a little more serious. i wish him well, i know he has had his problems.


JIMMY DORSEY RONNYRAINS@YAHOO.COM Mon Jul 9 13:45:20 PDT 2001

I AGREE WITH sabrina about MORRISON, i live about 25 miles from his home town. now but grew up in California.Morrison was okay one thing about it either they went or he went, (His bouts were exciting!) I would have loved to have seen a puncher like him or anyone else in with Tyson, rather than Iron MIKE's bum chums. I believe DKS MENTIONED PEOPLE LIKE cooney and BOBICK, BEFORE HE REALLY READ MY POSTS AND RENEGED ON THE STATEMENTS. i HAVE NEVER EVEEN MENTIONED BOBICK OR COONEy (why would i??). But at least there as good as an average MIKE tyson opponent TAKE CARE!


JIMMY DORSEY RONNYRAINS@YAHOO.COM Mon Jul 9 13:27:21 PDT 2001

DEAR KENT OR JAMES QUARRY: Since you guys are in that LOS Angeles are still. I HAVE A MISSION FOR YOU IF YOU DECIDE TO ACCEPT IT, A while ago i wrote of an old magazine clipping where JERRY QUARRY nearly was shot at an ANCHORAGE,ALASKA tavern. AFTER WHAT I BELIVE was they MIKE QUARRY-COOKIE WALLACE BOUT March,23,1977. It was either the LA TIMES, or they HERALD EXAMINER. SO if you wanted to go to the local LIBRARIES and look it up on microfilm, it would give some more outlook on the matter, i know Kent like's these projects and you probably would have to look up thelatter part of March 1977 or even early APRIL, because if memory serves me right it was not in 'FIGHT RESULTS". (I"M ALMOST POSITIVE IT WAS THE herald EXAMINER)


Johnny Q. JohnQW@yahoo.com Mon Jul 9 11:21:43 PDT 2001

Nice to see Henry Cooper get some positive mention here. I recently got excellent videos of both Ali-Cooper fights. I head read about them, including the knockdown of Ali in the first fight, but had never seen the bouts at length. Cooper was an incredibly tough fighter. He was a lean powerful guy with quick hands, who could box or slug depending on whom he was up against. Henry gave Ali plenty of competition in both fights. It was not all one-sided, as the US press likes to write. Cooper stayed on top of Ali, connected often and kept Ali busy covering far more that most of Ali's fights of the period. Unfortunately for Cooper, in both fights, as soon as Cooper gets cut, it's just blood in the water for Muhammad.


Mike Stevens brownss@bright.net Mon Jul 9 10:48:18 PDT 2001

Jerry Quarry would have KO'd Morrison very, very quickly...three rounds or less. Just finished watching the first two rounds of Frazier-Quarry, the first fight. Wow!! There just aren't that many people who can fight like that anywhere in the world, today or yesterday. I consider Frazier a truly great fighter, a real warrior. And Jerry Quarry was also a great fighter, just not quite as good as the champions of that era but better than 90% of the heavyweights who ever put on gloves.


Sabrina Quarry-Porter sabrinalporter@aol.com Mon Jul 9 06:53:53 PDT 2001

I THINK JERRY WOULD'VE BEAT TOMMY MORRISON.TOMMY MORRISON BEAT ROBERT QUARRY IN LAS VEGAS MANY YEARS AGO.I KNOW BECAUSE I WAS THERE TO SEE THE FIGHT....TOMMY MORRISON WAS A GOOD FIGHTER UNTIL HE FOUND OUT HE HAD AIDS, THEN HE DIDN'T SEEM TO CARE ABOUT ANYTHING ANYMORE...THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU THINK YOU'RE BETTER THAN EVERYONE ELSE....


charles Anderson ctjjandfam@aol.com Sun Jul 8 17:58:20 PDT 2001

how do you think a fight between jerry and tommy morrison would have ended up?


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Sun Jul 8 09:32:32 PDT 2001

Ali definitely won the fight with Shavers and the last round is one of the best that I have ever seen. At the time, Shavers made a lot of noise about the decision but has since accepted his defeat. 1st Norton fight was won by Norton, I believe, as he clearly outworked Ali. 2nd fight was a great one with Ali storming off to an early start only for Norton to come back neck and neck going into the final round in which Ali turned it on to eek out a close decision. Third fight, I agree with you DKS, on first watching I immediately thought Norton had been robbed. But since reviewing it a few times the fight seems a lot closer that I first thought. Regarding the Young fight; it was just such a difficult fight to score, very messy and not many clean punches landing. I did'nt think that Young had done enough to take the title..though Ali just 'Held on to it'..Evren


Br.DKS OpinionatedBrother@yahoo.com Sun Jul 8 08:52:15 PDT 2001

There were negotiations for Cooper vs Jimmy Ellis but it fell through. It was after Ellis had won the WBA tournament in 1968. Cooper wanted the WBA title shot. Problem is Cooper WANTED NO PART OF FRAZIER. HE AND HIS OWN MANGEMENT DID EVERYTHING IN THEIR POWER TO AVOID FRAZIER. Perhaps in the back of his mind Cooper realized that if he did indeed beat Ellis he'd have to face Frazier for the unification of belts. Not sure though. Evren wasn't totally accurate about Cooper vs Ali. COOPER DID INDEED FIND ALI'S SPEED TROUBLESOME. Hoevevr he trained well for it. Cooper trained to take on Ali from rounds 4 on. He knew Ali was too fast for him in the 1st 3 rounds. "I knew Ali would come out like greased lightning in the 1st 3 rounds" stated Cooper. So we adjusted our stratedgy to catch him when he started to slow by the 4th. As you can see Cooper trained well to counter Ali. COOPER ALSO USED ALI'S EARLY FOE NAMED ALONZO JOHNSON (lost to Ali back in 1962. Went the distance 10 rds). He used Johnson to ability to fight fast on their toes fighter. Also wanted to gain some knowledge on Ali's style. See if he could learn of Ali's weaknesses. Can't remember if it was for Ali/Cooper I or II. I think it was for II because it was a championship fight. I'll check again. 1 MORE THING. THOUGH I NEVER SAW ALI/SHAVERS I STILL KNOW FOR A FACT THAT IT WAS NOT NEARLY AS CONTROVERSIAL AS ALI/NORTON 3 (WHICH I ADMIT I THOUGHT ALI LOST) OR JIMMY YOUNG (WHICH 95% OF HUMANITY THINKS YOUNG WON. Unlike Angelo I never saw that either). In fact I've read that Shavers was out on his feet by the end of round 15. Just because it's close doesn't mean he lost. I WISH I COULD SEE THIS BLASTED FIGHTS FOR MYSELF AND JUDGE. WOULD ALSO LIKE TO SEE THE 3RD NORTON FIGHT OVER AGAIN TO SEE IF I GET THE SAME RESULT NOW THAT I'M MORE INTO BOXING AS A SPORT. PS: I'LL WRITE THE PROBLEMS WITH KENT AND ANGELO LATER, WHEN I HAVE THE TIME. WHY THEY ARE DANGEROUS FANS TO ALI'S LEGACY. Till next time.


Br.DKS Opinionatedbr27@yahoo.com Sun Jul 8 08:22:17 PDT 2001

One thing Angelo is right about is that they are Ali haters. I'm dealing with a guy called top-10 on another website (not Frazier or Quarry) who insists that Ali lost all 3 fights to Norton and lost to Shavers and Jimmy Young as well. He claims he's seen all the fights but admits he saw the Norton battles some time ago. I disagreed with him on the 2nd Ali/Norton fight though. I feel Ali deserved that one. Norton ran out of gas in the 12th and Ali scored. ALL JUDGES GAVE ALI THE 12TH INCLUDING THE JUDGE IN FAVOR OF NORTON THUS THE SCORING WAS FAIR (also note that all judges gave Norton rounds 7 and 8. How can bias judging be charged. It just never happened). JP (you remember him) also claims Ali lost all 3 Norton fights. Though not an Ali hater IS AN ADMITTED NORTON BIG TIME FAN. Thus the bias is still there. I admit that when I saw Ali-Norton 3 back in 1997-98 I thought Norton won and was robbed BUT I WAS NOT INTO BOXING BACK THEN AND DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO PROPERLY SCORE ROUND BY ROUND. Didn't know all that went into scoring (agressiveness, effective agression, effective punching, defence, general rigmanship etc, etc). I only got into boxing in 1999. As you can see that's not very long. However I'm an excessive reader and learn quick. People think I've been into boxing for many years. This is not the case. Top-10's bias against Ali is so obvious that even a child would know. When I read his arguments against Ali's greatness I CAME CLOSE TO TEARS. YOU WON'T BELIEVE THE REASONS. YOU'LL BE SHOCKED BEYOND BELIEF. Didn't know wether to laugh (at the nonesense) or cry. I think I did a bit of both (LOL). I effectively crushed each of his argumenst but he always ignored my rebuttals and made knew ones. Realizing I could never win i just gave up ignored him in return. Worst of all he insists that he has nothing personal against Ali but I think he's absolutely lying. His arguments are proof enough.


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Sat Jul 7 01:15:09 PDT 2001

Slade...I have a copy of that fight and I too was surprised at the ease in which Patterson dealt with Cooper. I've always felt that one of Coopers biggest weapons was his relatively small size and speed; for example in his fights with Ali he was never overwhelmed with Ali's speed as he had lots of his own and made himself a difficult target. Against Patterson, Floyd was able to take away that very ingredient with his amazingly quick punches and inside combinations, knocking Cooper down a couple of times and eventually sparko in the 4th ! (I'll have to review it again to confirm). I'd have to say this one of the best latter day performances by Floyd, especially as the fighter away from home. Best Wishes. Evren


Slade info@ptctel.com Fri Jul 6 21:22:24 PDT 2001

Was there ever any negotiations of a Henry Cooper-Jerry Quarry fight? Any predictions?.... Over the years, Henry had some good fights. I was a little surprised when I read Patterson took Cooper out in 4 rounds (it was Patterson's only fight in '66). Was a Patterson KO over Cooper expected back in '66?....Anyone see footage of that fight? Was it a blowout? Thanks, Slade.


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Fri Jul 6 19:00:40 PDT 2001

DKS: Norton, in the 70's, ahead of Ali? Huh? Norton was 1-2 against Ali, lost to Foreman (by a devastating and quick KO), lost to Shavers (by a devastating and quick KO), lost to Holmes as well. I guess Cooney's "devastating and quick KO" over Norton was in the early 80's. By the way, I DID see Ali-Shavers and I have it on tape. Ali won 8 rounds cleanly and you could make a very strong case that he won 9 rounds. As a champion, he did enough to hold his belt against Young and Norton III. True, I'm an Ali fan--- but let's face facts here: Many of these people who claim "Ali lost to this guy and Ali lost to that guy" (fights that the record shows Ali won) HATE ALI. Ali haters are busy taking his closest victories and claiming they were losses. The only guy who you can even make any type of argument for (being better than Ali in the 70's) is Larry Holmes, who was an undefeated Champion----with impressive wins.


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Fri Jul 6 17:23:54 PDT 2001

I could see a seris of bouts between Louis and Ali with Ali winning the first match. Louis had a way of having difficulty in a first match with an opponent and then solving the problems and coming back to win convincingly in rematches. He was totally outboxed by Conn before coming from behind to win in the 13th round in their first fight by knockout. He then won rather easily in a rematch. He lost to Schmeling in the first fight but ended up destroying Schmeling in the first round in the second fight. There are those who say that Louis never saw anything quite like Ali and if Conn, who was a light heavyweight, could give Louis trouble, then what would a bigger and maybe even faster and also stronger fighter than Conn in Ali do to Louis? Whatever the outcome, it would have been an interesting seris of bouts, maybe even better than the Ali/Frazier trilogy.


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Fri Jul 6 16:22:50 PDT 2001

Yes Kent..a real argument indeed. I have always rated Louis as a close second against Ali. I think one of the main factors why I rate Ali higher is, as we have been discussing, the tremendous quality of opposition that he faced in his career. Beating every top fighter he faced up until 1978, Ali faced every different stlye around and found a way to overcome them all. The one fighter he never mastered, though, was Ken Norton who himself was a really great fighter who carried superb fitness and determination into the ring. If the matchup of Ali and Louis had ever occurred I would have to pick 'The Greatest' by way of mid round stoppage. His superior skill, natural size and overall boxing mastery and ring generalship would of, I believe, outweighed Louis' decided edge in power. These are my opinions of course and they could be argued all day...I guess that's why we write them...Good evening to you all from London. Evren


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Fri Jul 6 15:46:24 PDT 2001

I meant to say that Ali beat a virtual who's who of the 1970's, not all time, but there are still some very good fighters on this list and if we add a faded Floyd Patterson in 1972, the list looks even more impressive. That being said, I haven't finished doing my ratings for the decade of the 1960's but Ali again appears to be my front runner for that decade as well. Evren says, "the greatest heavy ever." He could get some argument for someone like Joe Louis being the greatest, but that is still some very fast company to be included with.


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Fri Jul 6 12:23:12 PDT 2001

Ali is the number one of the 70's, there can be very little doubt about that, as Kent said his record reads like the who's who in boxing...Amazing, the number 1 heavy in two decades and the Greatest Heavy ever.


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Fri Jul 6 07:32:14 PDT 2001

With wins over Foreman, two wins a piece over Norton, Frazier, and Quarry, wins over Ellis, Shavers, Young, Lyle, Bonevena, Chuvalo, M. Foster, B. Foster,( a virtual who's who of any time); it is hard to put Ali anywhere but number one for the decade of the 1970's. Sure some of the victories in the later years were very close and people argue the point that Norton really won the third fight (I always thought that maybe the WBC belt was given to Norton later to make up for that decision), but it is still an impressive record. Foreman had victories over Frazier (twice), Norton, and Lyle and he was to say the least an intimidating prescence. Norton had wins over Ali, Quarry, Young, and Bobick. While Frazier had victories over Ali, Ellis (twice), Quarry, and B. Foster, I still say he didn't have enough fights to be rated higher for the decade. Holmes was just coming into his own at the end of the decade of the 70's and DKS is right that his time is more the 1980's than the 70's, but he was still unbeaten in 32 fights as the 1980's started and that is why I rate him high for the 1970's. Still none of these other fighters can top Ali's record for the decade. DEFENDING ALI AGAINST ALI'S BIGGEST FAN-INTERESTING!


Br.DKS OpinionatedBro@yahoo.com Fri Jul 6 07:03:48 PDT 2001

It's silly that you all write about other boxers being 60's WHEN ALI WAS MORE 60'S THAN ANY OF THEM WILL EVER BE! For pete's sake you all write about Frazier and and even younger Quarry's best years being in late 60's (I disagree and think it was 1970-73 for Quarry). ALI'S BEST YEARS WERE FLIPPEN 1966-67 so what you all write is faulty logic. READ MY PPOST BELOW AND SEE WHY (POST TO KENT). Best "70's" as a whole decade. 1)Holmes (since he was undefeated), Foreman (dominant decade till left pre-maturally due to Young upset loss), 3)Norton/Ali (tie) successfull 1st half for Ali. Awful 2nd half (76-79)*, 4)Frazier (big win over a ring-rusty Ali), Jimmy Young (beat Lyle twice and Foreman. Close with Norton. Robbed with faded Ali). 6)Quarry (taking Lyle and Shavers victory into account. Awful with Frazier and Ali). 7)Shavers, 8)Lyle. Don't know after that. There's some boxers I'll have to look into. PS: The following list was for 70's alone. If you include 60's-70's together then the list would be different. I'm basing this one taking only 70's into account. *ALI'S PRIME ENDED IN THE "RUMBLE IN THE JUNGLE" with Foreman. He was never the same again.


Br.DKS OpionatatedBro@Yahoo.com Fri Jul 6 06:36:37 PDT 2001

With that logic why not put Nrton, Foreman and Holmes over Ali. Let's face it, ALI IS MORE FROM THE 60'S THAN ANYONE ELSE. INCLUDING FRAZIER. Also, Ali was never at his true best due to the 3 1/2 year lay-off. Finally Ali was finished as a competetive fighter after 1975. His last great victory was the Thrilla In Manila. After that he had a debatable victory over Shavers (I never saw that fight so don't know), and "really" lost to Ken Norton in the 3rd fight (I though he lost the 3rd fight when I saw it. Only saw the fight 1nce) and probably lost to Young as well (never saw that fight either but just about everyone says it was a robery). My point is YOUR LOGIC IS EXTREEMLY FAULTY when you put Ali (whom I love) at 1st while at the same time putting Norton above Frazier. With you same logic you should put Foreman and Norton ahead of Ali. Also check out Norton/Holmes fight. While Norton was toe to toe with a star boxer Ali was busy losing to a nobody named Leon Spinks. SOMEONE WHO HAD NO BUSINESS EVEN BEING IN THE RING WITH ALI LET ALONE BEATING HIM (like John Ruiz over Holyfield). Anyways, my point is that Ali shouldn't be 1st anymore than Frazier. According to your own standards. Please read carefully before responding. You have a bad habit of jumping the flippen gun. No offence but you can't squirm your way out of this one. Even with the big Foreman win you have to take the "whole" 70's into account. In that case it's between Norton, Foreman and maybe Holmes. Though Holmes is more early 80's than 70's. Still had big wins over Roy Williams, Shavers (twice) and the classic war with Norton. I place Ali around 3rd. All-time is a diff thing however. That's it for now. Till next time.


Kent Appel Oriononside@aol.com Thu Jul 5 18:48:11 PDT 2001

When we are talking about a best of the decade ranking I took that to mean for the entire decade. Someone questioned my choice of Norton over Frazier for the decade of the 70's. I ranked Norton ahead of Frazier because Joe only had 12 bouts in the 70's, while Norton had 35 bouts. I tried to take into account the significance of the bouts but 12 fights for Frazier was just not enough for an entire decade to give him a higher rating. Interestingly, the only undefeated fighter on my list is Larry Holmes who was 32-0 for the decade with 4 title defenses already under his belt. I put him at number 3 for that reason. But the significance of the victories of both Muhammed Ali and George Foreman outweighed Holmes undefeated record. I have Jerry at number six because of his wins over Lyle and Shavers and because he did have 22 bouts in the decade, 18-4. The losses coming at the hands of Ali, Frazier and Norton. Jimmy Young was a bit of an enigma in that he had great victories over Foreman and Lyle (twice), and a draw (and a knockout loss) to Shavers. Young may have had a higher ranking except for having too many losses. I will try and rank the decade of the sixties next and I will fight the urge just to post my results without giving reasons, like statistics and ring magezine rankings. During pro football season here in the U.S. I do a top five ranking of teams each week that is totally dependent onthe records of the teams, statistics, and who the team beat on the field. I don't have a favorite football,team as my Rams deserted me sometime back,so my ratings are fairly objective. I have been called every name in the book by over zealous football fans who are biased for their teams and it is funny how most of the time the only ratioale they have is that their team is the better team but things like bad officiating cost them the game. But back to boxing; I will try and rank the fighters according to who beats who in the ring, statistics, and significance of the bouts.


Evren Evrem@btinternet.com Thu Jul 5 17:13:37 PDT 2001

It struck me reading over the lists how many great fighters of that time never became champion. It may be cruel to say this but I feel this is the way it should be. I think most of you guys would agree that most of the fighters in the top 10 from the sixties and seventies would have won a version of a championship had they been fighting today and they could have increased their weight had they so wished. But one champion alone should always stand out and as we look over the record books now, we know who the real champions were..I cannot say that for the current situation with multi titles etc...just a blur that is severely damaging 'our game.'Another point I'd like to make is this continual reference to boxers weights of yesteryear compared to today...I have a lot of old footage of boxers from the 50's, 60's and 70's and one thing that really strikes me is the athleticism of the boxers. None of those top guys in our lists carried excess weight when they were at or near their prime. They fought at the weight it was required at that time...look at Terrell..you have a guy who is 6ft 6" weighing around 205lbs and as lean as can be...I'm certain if he had wanted or needed to he could have gone up to 225lbs. With a few exceptions(Klitschko's, young Lennox) most of the guys who are heavy, today, seem to carry weight on their tummy or on their backsides !!! 'nuff saaid.


JIMMY DORSEY RONNYRAINS@YAHOO.COM Thu Jul 5 17:03:21 PDT 2001

60'S-JERRY QUARRY: IS THE ONE I'M HAVING TROUBLE WITH THE MOST BECAUSE HE WAS SUCH A GOOD FIGHTER FROM 67-69. could these other guys stand up to FRAZIER like JERRY did in 69'. But he never fought Williams,Mildenberger,Cooper,Folley,Terrell,Martin and we are talking pretty much prime for prime. Evern i think your first three were right on the money 1-ALI 2-LISTON 3-FRAZIER. unless anyone is wondering the 8 JERRY BEAT AND THEIR RATING AT FIGHT TIME, PATTERSON#5 IN 67' and #3 when the drew. SPENCER#2 68',MATHIS#6 69' FOSTER#1 70',BODELL#8 71',MIDDLETON#7 72',LYLE#3 73',and SHAVERS#6 in 74.


JIMMY DORSEY RONNYRAINS@YAHOO.COM Thu Jul 5 16:32:40 PDT 2001

EVREN: ONE THING I AM REALLY IMPRESSED ABOUT YOU AND KENT. IS YOU BOTH USE RING MAGAZINE AS FAR AS THE RATINGS GO,(ONLY WAY TO GO). another way of rating these guys is how many world ranked(at the time) fighter's that they beat. JERRY QUARRY FOR A FACT BEAT 8 (3IN THE SIXTIES,5 IN THE SEVENTIES). AND THAT IS A LOT FOLKS COMPARE BONAVENA MAYBE 3 and i could look this up. the three being CHUVALO,MILDENBERGER(for sure) and maybe MIDDLETON IN 74'.COMPARE ELLIS WHO BEAT TOP TENERS PERSOL,MARTIN,BONAVENA,QUARRY,PATTERSON. AND THATS IT . COMPARE chuvalo only one (QUARRY) AND WE ALL KNOW HOW THAT FIGHT SHOULD HAVE GONE. so on this i might rate JERRY ABOUT 7 IN THE SIXTIES. maybe over MACHEN,FOLLEY,(maybe not!) TAKE CARE


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Thu Jul 5 12:49:59 PDT 2001

Here goes----top 60's Heavyweights..1.MUHAMMAD ALI. 2. SONNY LISTON. 3.JOE FRAZIER. 4.FLOYD PATTERSON 5.ERNIE TERRELL. 6.CLEVELAND WILLIAMS. 7.JIMMY ELLIS.8.ZORA FOLLEY. 9.JERRY QUARRY. 10.BUSTER MATHIS. 11.EDDIE MACHEN 12. OSCAR BONAVENA. 13. HENRY COOPER. 14. THAD SPENCER. 15. GEORGE CHUVALO. TO MY KNOWLEGE JERRY'S RECORD AGAINST THESE GUYS IS :- 3 WINS..7 LOSSES..1 DRAW..1 KO MUHAMMAD ALI'S RECORD AGAINST THESE GUYS IS :- 19 WINS..1 LOSS..14 KO'S...THIS IS WHY ALI IS THE GREATEST...EVER..ALL THE BEST, EVREN.


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Wed Jul 4 17:00:31 PDT 2001

The reason I picked Bugner ahead of Bonevena was because Bugner had the majority of his fights in the 1970's and he was ranked in the top ten by Ring Magezine during six of the ten years. While Bonevena was ranked in the top ten in four of the ten years and he had most of his fights in the 1960's. The pick of Norton over Frazier in the decade of the 70's was a hard pick but Joe only had 12 bouts in that decade and he had 8 wins and 4 losses. Joe had very good competition and some very big victories, but I felt the 1960's was more Joe's decade because most of his bouts were during that time. Norton on the other hand had 35 bouts during the 1970's and his biggest victories. Like I said, it was difficult to pick Norton ahead of Frazier because of the significance of Joe's bouts. It is hard to top things like beating Ali, but that occured in the beginning of the decade.


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Wed Jul 4 15:17:20 PDT 2001

Strange that as you said it's hard to find a worthy number 10 for the 70's but the 60's; well it's hard to cram them all in!!!I put the 60's on a par with 70's...working on my top 10 will post soon. Evren


JIMMY DORSEY RONNYRAINS@YAHOO.COM Wed Jul 4 14:27:08 PDT 2001

EVREN: I really have to go to the lacossa,to research the 60's,see what i got started? TO ME THE 60'S WERE ONLY ONE GRADE BELOW THE 7O'S, yo have guys like CLEVELAND WILLIAMS,EDDIE MACHEN,ZORA FOLLEY,HENRY COOPER, FLOYD PATTERSON'S RATING SHOULD BE A LOT HIGHER AS WELL AS SONNY LISTON. OF COURSE YOU HAVE ALI,FRAZIER,QUARRY,BONAVENA,ELLIS (some of these young guys may not even make the ten) very good era. TAKE CARE!


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Wed Jul 4 13:53:03 PDT 2001

My Top 10 70's Heavyweights...1..Ali (No Question). 2.George Foreman. 3.Joe Frazier (Would have put him higher but 2 of his best years were '68 and '69. 4. Larry Holmes (More 80's than 70's)5. Ken Norton. 6.Jerry Quarry. 7.Ron Lyle.8.Earnie Shavers.9.Jimmy Young.10.Oscar Bonavena..Joe Bugner (tie) What do you guys think about the top 60's....I'll post my top 10 soon. EVREN


JIMMY DORSEY RONNYRAINS@YAHOO.COM Wed Jul 4 13:03:02 PDT 2001

DEAR KENT: i see you pretty much agree with me on the 70's HEAVYWEIGHTS you think NORTON could take the kind of pressure smokin joe could put out? Remember joe still had some smoke left in 1975 ("THE THRILLA IN MANILLA"). He dang near brought home the title. AND mr.QUARRY won the 2nd,3rd, rounds by keeping the pressure on NORTON.I really forgot how bad he was cut and they other eye was closed. P LUS JERRY ran out of gas a bit. Norton did better against boxers than sluggers. I THINK YOUR N0.10 BUGNER was a decent pick considering JOE's toughness no punch though. BONAVENA (active until his untimely death 1976)> I THINK WOULD HAVE FOUND A WAY TO WIN VS BUGNER , one thing for sure seems like we all having a hard time with no.10. hOW ABOUT RON STANDER HA HA. TAKE CARE!


Hmmmmmm . Wed Jul 4 06:46:02 PDT 2001

Norton rated higher than Frazier? Nah.


Br.DKS OpinionatedBrother@yahoo.com Wed Jul 4 06:18:40 PDT 2001

Just looked at the post again. It said Dokes NOT Weaver. My mistake. That's even worse! Dokes (DOH!) is no better than Weaver. The whole 80's heavyweight crop sucks. As stated before that's why Tyson had a field day.


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Wed Jul 4 03:14:32 PDT 2001

Here is my top 10 heavyweights for the decade of the 1970's: 1. Muhammed Ali 2.George Foreman 3. Larry Holmes 4. Ken Norton 5. Joe Frazier 6. Jerry Quarry 7. Jimmy Young 8. Ron Lyle 9. Earnie Shavers 10. Joe Bugner.


JIMMY DORSEY RONNYRAINS@YAHOO.COM Tue Jul 3 12:45:23 PDT 2001

did you put MIKE WEAVER IN A TOP TEN?, I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE MAN's career. and as far as thats concerned it was only the 70's. one more time Jan 1 1970 until dec 31 1979, 1-ALI 2- FOREMAN 3-HOLMES 4-FRAZIER 5-NORTON 6-QUARRY 7-YOUNG 8-LYLE 9-SHAVERS 10- (i said DOKES) BUT THAT ONES A TOUGH ONE, MAYBE O"HALLORAN. THE ONLY THING YOU WERE RIGHT ABOUT WAS HIS NAME WAS RAY MERCER (not mike). UNDERRATED TOUGH GUY WHO DID'NT GET THE BREAKS AND HAD A GRANITE LIKE CHIN. DO ME A FAVOR AND READ BEFORE YOU COMMENT>


Br.DKS OpinionatedInfo@yahoo.com Tue Jul 3 11:59:36 PDT 2001

Just 1 more thing. Ray NOT Mike Mercer. I'm out for now.


Br.DKS Boxingnet.com Tue Jul 3 11:09:39 PDT 2001

MIKE WEAVER a top 10!!! You're kidding right? If not then you have A LOT to learn about boxers. Unless you mean top-10 of the worst title holders. Heck I may make a list of this. Not only can I name many and I mean MANY better heavyweights (Langford, Peter Jackson, Joe Jeonette both deprived because of racism. John L.Sullivan was too chicken s**t to face Jackson cause he knew he'd get his white behind whipped) I have uncles who could beat him. JAMES QUARRY could beat Weaver let alone Jerry (LOL). This is the worst boxer I've seen on a top 10 ever. Maybe you meant top ten for a certain time period. Perhaps I misunderstood. Then again the 8o's crop were the worst of the lot. Very pathetic. No wonder Tyson had a field day. So would Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Norton and Holmes. Heck even guys like Lyle, Bonavena, Shavers, Quarry and Jimmy Young could done so. Who else is on your top 10 list. DUANE BOBICK and GERRY COONEY (LOL). LHHM!!!!


Br.DKS LordHaveMercy.aol.com Tue Jul 3 10:57:18 PDT 2001

Hey Pastor Kent. Spare me the lecture. No need for your preaching. As I've stated before please read before you comment. THESE ARE NOT MY WORDS. I read them from the internet. It was an interview of Ken Norton. Thus all the preachin you did is irrelevent to me. I never read the book. Nor did I state how I feel. I "quoted" what I saw on another site. I'll get the address and let you read it yourself. Comment on that if you like.


Johnny Q. JohnQW@yahoo.com Mon Jul 2 21:52:09 PDT 2001

Tomorrow night on CSN, Foreman v Lyle! We might imagine (almost) Foreman v Liston.


JIMMY DORSEY RONNYRAINS@YAHOO.COM Mon Jul 2 17:12:36 PDT 2001

ANOTHER UNDERRATED FIGHTER WHO I PERSONALLY THINK WOULD HAVE GAVE "IRON MIKE TYSON" all sorts of hell was MIKE MERCER how come MIKE did not fight the big punchers?? you know,MERCER,MORRISON,RIDDICK BOWE,WITHERSPOON,FOREMAN,LEWIS, GUYS THAT COULD HIT YOU BACK? I SAW MERCER WIN JUST ABOUT EVERY ROUND AGAINST LENNOX LEWIS. ALSO WHY DID JERRY QUARRY TERM JACK O'HALLORAN AS "everybody's friend" did that mean that everyone beat jack or was it just he was a nice guy ?? HAHA! he did ko RAHMAN ALI, AND HE DID HAVE A BETTER AGENT THEN JERRY, having been on KING KONG with JESSICA LANGE (he could have played kong!). one of the three cripton villans in SUPERMAN and the last time i saw him DRAGNET WITH AKROYD AND HANKS. I have an old world boxing magazine and it said if JACK O'HALLORAN THREW AS MANY PUNCHES AS HE DID AT THE "BRANDING IRON" IN san bernardino he would be in the top ten. also on the subject of our WEAVER, where is he and how is he doing?


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Sun Jul 1 18:35:54 PDT 2001

That is a great analogy about Mike Weaver being a real life Rocky Balboa. The fictional Balboa had a lot of losses and was going nowhere (I think somewhere in one of movies Balboa's record is mentioned as 44 wins 20 losses with 36 kayos going into the first Creed bout). Weaver's turning point also was against the champ, Larry Holmes, where he gave a good account of himself before losing a tough bout, just like Balboa. Weaver also went on to a win the WBA version of the title. A real out of nowhere success story.


JIMMY DORSEY RONNYRAINS@YAHOO.COM Sun Jul 1 15:03:57 PDT 2001

YES ANGELO: WEAVER ended up having a great career considering they thru him to the wolves he was fighting pro debut at strelich stadium(now strongBOW STADIUM) WERE I USED TO BOX AMATEUR IN BAKERSFIELD CA. and they thru him in with no.9 contender howard "KO" smith.Alas mike was KO'D, but held SMITH to a draw in his next bout. This was a kid they pulled off the docks of SAN PEDRO. and made a fighter out of him for his build alone, I DO NOT THINK HE HAD EVEN ONE AMATEUR BOUT. CALIFORNIA in those days if you had a good heavyweight it was like a gold mine, And he just happend to be tough enough to endure it, I FOLLOWED WEAVER, remember his great bout with holmes, his 0-14 15th round knockout of john "timberrrr" TATE who in his own right was a good pro, i also remember the dokes joke when they stopped it in the 1st round, then he came back to dominate dokes only to have the corupt officials call it a draw with dokes keeping the title. AND when he went to SOUTH AFRICA and took all of coetzee's bionic blasts to come back and put coetzee down and out for the full count.Angelo i do not get into reel life as opposed to real life (FREDDY DRYER TAUGHT ME THAT IN ALASKA WITH JERRY). but if you think about it WEAVER was a real life rocky. A natural athelete in the "SUPERSTARS" he ran a 10.5 100-yard dash and that was against some NFL RUNNING BACKS. take care!


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Sun Jul 1 12:09:23 PDT 2001

Jimmy: Wow---I sort of forgot about Weaver, who was a factor in the division late in his career. Also, Leroy Jones was a decent undefeated fighter (who actually won a decision against Weaver to win the NABF Heavyweight title). Jones was undefeated going into his title fight against Holmes, but lost in the 8th round of that fight and as far as I know, didn't fight again after that. He had a bizarre style for a guy so large. He fought as heavy as 271 pounds, yet wasn't really a power puncher by any means. He had a sweet jab and really surprising movement for a guy as heavy as he was. Before the Holmes fight, he said "The fat man wouldn't be here if he couldn't fight." And though Holmes dominated the fight, Jones did have a good round or two, even tripling up on his jab once or twice! As for Ray's post: It's so difficult to regulate boxing. So much comes into play. How do you determine when a fighter is shot and shouldn't be allowed to fight anymore? I think we've determined that age alone cannot be the determining factor. How can this be done in an objective way? Also, how do we avoid mismatches? The answer is, we don't. Young fighters coming up, who have good talent, are often matched against stiffs, just to build their record and confidence. I think the heavy burden of keeping the sport safe falls on the shoulder of the referee, ringside physician and trainers. I take exception to comparing boxing to cockfighting----I understand your concern for the boxers, but humans are capable of thinking and deciding for themselves. As long as both participants are willing to step in the ring, this is not cockfighting. Then, when the fight starts, it's clearly up to officials (not the fighters) to decide when to stop the fight. If you left it up to the boxers, there would be terrible carnage, because most of them don't like to quit. It's why a referee, trainer OR physician should have the authority to halt the action to evaluate a fighter's condition. Let's err on the conservative side of this, and stop fights sooner rather than too late. As a fan, I think we could all adjust to being disappointed in a fight being stopped "too soon" once in a while, to protect fighters and avoid ring deaths as much as possible.


JIMMY DORSEY RONNYRAINS@YAHOO.COM Sat Jun 30 17:28:15 PDT 2001

DEAR ANGEL0: YES I AGREE WITH WITHERSPOON ALSO BUT HE WASN'T IN THE 70'S BUNCH. WHAT I MEAN BY RATING THE 70'S WAS FROM JAN 1 1970 TO DEC 31 1979. I TOOK GEORGE NO.2 OVER HOLMES FOR JUST THAT REASON. COULD GO EITHER WAY THOUGH . THEN 4-FRAZIER 5-NORTON AND 6- I GAVE A SLIGHT NOD TO JERRY QUARRY OVER JIMMY YOUNG DUE TO COMMON OPPONENTS, AND JERRY'S LONGER CAREER. 8-LYLE 9-SHAVERS AND YOUR RIGHT ABOUT DOKES NO.10 WAS A PROBLEM PICK WITH JOHN TATE, MIKE WEAVER, GERRI COETZEE, EVEN BONAVENA. TAKE CARE!


ray joekevin@cs.com Sat Jun 30 10:05:50 PDT 2001

Hi friends, regarding Troy's question, should Duran and Camacho be allowed to fight. This so-called match demonstrates to me once again that boxing cannot and will not ever be regulated. A while back on this board I remarked that what happenned to Jerry Quarry in his last fight is still happenning to fighters in the year 2001. Greg Page is still in the hospital, Tim Whiterspoon just fought 2 weeks ago he was pathetic, he is an accident about to happen. It's sad to say,but the only noble people involved in boxing are the fighters, and in too many cases they are not capable of using prudent judgement regarding there own well being. I ask anyone reading this board if they would encourage their children to become boxers. As a boxing historian and life long fan, I say again the only way to ensure the safety for boxers is to outlaw boxing. I've been following boxing since the time Benny Kid Paret was killed in MSG in 1962, on national TV, and there were pledges made then to clean up the sport, and make it safe, well friends that was almost 40 years ago, and in that time I've gone full circle from being a die boxing fan to realizing it's a diobolical "sport", which is comparable to human cockfighting.


Troy Porter plmtrepepl@aol.com Sat Jun 30 07:40:41 PDT 2001

anybody got a clue on roberto duran and hector camacho? should they wear headgear or are they just too dumb to know when to stop.duran will be 50 years old is he asking for trouble or will he quit like he did with leonard? ( no mas!) since this foundation is for puglistica dementia does anyone think these guys are already hurt?


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Sat Jun 30 07:21:49 PDT 2001

Regarding Jimmy Dorsey's ratings---I agree that Holmes is very underrated. I might put him #2 behind Ali. I also think Tim Witherspoon would edge out Dynamite Dokes in my rankings.


john indians4lfe@webtv.net Fri Jun 29 22:02:20 PDT 2001

just had to say u were awesome in the ring,a class act,ur foundation is a blessing,and ur site is great thank you!!


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Fri Jun 29 15:00:39 PDT 2001

DKS: in Ken Norton's book Going The Distance, he mentions that he and Jerry didn't like each other. He also says that once the fight was over and they had hugged each other in the the ring that all of his bad feelings for Jerry disappeared. He goes on to praise Jerry for having a lot of heart in the ring for fighting hard til the end. He also has a section that deals with Jerry's affliction and he says that it was a shame what happened to Jerry. I hardly think that if Norton truly believed that Jerry was a racist, then any bad feelings he had for him would not have disappered and that Norton would never have had any kind of praise or concern for what happened to Jerry. I have heard that Norton has a restaurant in my county here in Southern California and maybe I will take a trip down there and ask him some questions myself. I don't think that Joe Frazier and Muhammed Ali would have been as friendly with Jerry as they were if Jerry was a racist. Joe has nothing but good things to say about Jerry both as a person and as a fighter and Muhammed and Jerry can be seen openly laughing and joking during an interview before the third Ali/Norton fight as Jerry does an imitation of Ali and Muhammed plays the part of the interviewer. The punch line of Muhammed telling Jerry (who was playing Muhammed), "you must be scared, you turned white" is quite funny. DKS, it is possible for a white man not to like a black man and not have it be racial. Maybe one guy thinks that other guy is a jerk and vice versa. It is also possible for one man to think that race is the reason for another man not liking him, but it reality it is just a personality conflict that has nothing to do with race.


Br.DKS OpinionatedBrother@yahoo.com Fri Jun 29 08:10:14 PDT 2001

Oh my God! I wasn't going to write here until I saw this just now (2 minutes ago). Ken Norton has said that the only fighter he never liked before a fight was Jerry Quarry. Why. He claims that he knows Jerry had a deep hatred towards the Black race. That's why he went into the fight with a lot of anger. Is this true? I've wondered because of what I read about the Ali/Quarry II (Soul Brothers/Quarry Brothers). Concernning the whole family. I'll contact Mr.Norton. If so no matter. It was the past. As long as people change for the better later on in life.


Mark Sargeant lpu00mts@reading.ac.uk Thu Jun 28 05:38:57 PDT 2001

Although A lot can be said about Liston's heart from the two Ali fights, remember that in his first professional loss he had his jaw broken and carried on for another 4 rounds.


JIMMY DORSEY RONNYRAINS@YAHOO.COM Wed Jun 27 17:24:28 PDT 2001

YES I CAN REMEMBER JUNE 27 1972. AND YES JERRY DID HAVE A BIG EGO, AND TO BE HONEST ,HE DESERVED IT NO ONE EVER GAVE HIM ANYTHING, LOSING TO MR. ALI WAS NO DISGRACE AT LEAST JERRY DIDN'T LAY DOWN AND PLAY DEAD LIKE TODAY'S FIGHTER'S AND ALI AND FOSTER DID PERTRAY THE QUARRY'S LIKE JOKE'S. AND PERSONALLY I WOULD HAVE LOVED TO SEE A JERRY QUARRY-BOB FOSTER MATCH. AND IN ALBUQUERQUE BABY. ANOTHER BOUT THAT JERRY COULD HAVE LAID DOWN AND PLAY DEAD WAS ZANON 1977.GIVE RITCHIE GIACETTI CREDIT HE KEPT JERRY'S SPIRIT UP ENOUGH FOR HIM TO WIN. MAN HE DID NOT NEED A BOXER TO COME BACK AGAINST LIKE ZANON ALFREDO EVANGELISTA NO. 8 CONTENDER WOULD HAVE BEEN PERFECT FOR JERRY. THEN HE COULD HAVE MADE A LOT MORE GREEN ON THAT COMEBACK(ALTHOUGH PAST HIS PRIME). I REALLY CANNOT RATE JERRY VS ALLTIME FIGHTER'S TOO HARD TO TELL AND DIFFERANT ERA'S FOR SURE. I WILL RATE JERRY'S ERA SAY THE SEVENTIES. 1- DUHH! MUHAMMAD ALI 2- FOREMAN 3- HOLMES(THE MOST UNDERRATED FIGHTER OF HISTORY) 4-FRAZIER 5-NORTON 6-QUARRY 7-YOUNG 8-LYLE 9-SHAVERS 10-DOKES. I ALSO THINK HOLMES PRIME FOR PRIME WOULD HAVE BEATEN LISTON. AND JERRY VS SONNY PRIME FOR PRIME I'D HAVE TO SAY SONNY. BUT FOLKS WE WILL NEVER KNOW. TAKE CARE NOW!


kookooclock kookooclock000@yahoo.com Wed Jun 27 12:53:28 PDT 2001

Lets all remember while were putting down Quarry and his brother that Quarry is not a heavyweight compared to Ali and Liston.... They didn't have cruiserweights then... The one thing I don't agree with is that Mike was better than Jerry.. Jerry hit harder.. Counterpunched better .. had a better left hook .. better right hand.. ONLY THING HE DIDN"T DO BETTER WAS TRAIN LIKE MIKE... Liston was a fighter that would do alright untill he started having a rough time.. then he would quit.. Something Quarry didn't know how to do...


Joe Krause sadmspats@yahoo.com Wed Jun 27 10:43:38 PDT 2001

I have seen many recent discussions about a Quarry vs Liston match-up. In 1968 or so Jerry would be a favorite in that fight. He would probably wear Sonny down and win a close one. Prime vs. Prime however would be a completely different story. Sonny was an absolute terror and could do it all. He wiped out the three fighters he fought that were in Jerry's class, Cleveland Williams, Zora Folley, Eddie Machen. Sonny was an incredible force and could also pick another fighter apart with his jab from the outside. All respect in the world for Jerry Quarry, but Liston is a step-up from anyone Quarry ever fought except Frazier and Ali.


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Wed Jun 27 09:07:55 PDT 2001

Losing to two of the best of all time (Ali and Foster) is nothing to be ashamed of. Mike, although behind in the fight, fought well before being knocked out with one of the best left hooks of all time. Jerry showed little except for some moments in the second and sixth rounds. I still don't know what he was thinking as he plodded after Ali throwing one punch at a time for much of the fight (something that would never have a chance of working against Ali). Maybe he was frustrated about not being able to get inside of Ali's tremendous reach advantage. It is when Ali picked up the pace in the sixth round to try and get Jerry out of there is when Jerry seemed to come to life and land several left/right combinations to make the fight seem interesting all of a sudden. I have watched this fight on tape many times and I still feel that although Jerry was stunned at the end of round six, and he was hit again with some hard combinations at the beginning of round seven, he didn't appear to me to out on his feet and that the fight was stopped too soon. Maybe the ref. saw something in his eyes that I miss on the tape but Jerry seems to have his senses as he protests the stoppage. I am sure that Ali probably would have won the fight by a decision or maybe a late round stoppage but I think Jerry may have given a better account of himself if the bout was allowed to continue. As far as the fight in the stands is concerned, I have heard that the fans that the Quarrys fought with were booing Jerry and hurling insults his way. Maybe the Quarrys over reacted because as James has said, "if the fans pay their money, then they have the right to boo if they want", but I understand in the emotionally charged atmosphere why the fight in the stands took place. If it was my family that was in the ring and the fans were giving them a hard time, then I might want to kick someone's ass too. Ali said it best when he stated that "there aint no white hope here." He was fighting another fighter pure and simple and he knew that Jerry didn't carry the "white hope" banner.


Br.DKS OpinionatedBr@yahoo.com Wed Jun 27 08:09:11 PDT 2001

When I put typical Boxers attitude in brackets, I meant ALL BOXERS. All boxers use certain lines or trash talk. I didn't mean "Jerry's attitude". Wasn't singleing him out. All boxers have a lot of pride and don't take losing easily. Just wanted to clear up any misunderstanding. Anyways I'm out for some time as usual.


Brother DKS OpinionatedBrother@yahoo.com Wed Jun 27 07:47:24 PDT 2001

It was the SOUL BROTHERS vs the QUARRY BROTHERS on this day of 1972. The Soul being Ali and Bob Foster and the Quarry of course being Jerry and Mike. Both Quarry brothers were the under-dogs and well should be. Ali and Foster were 2 of the best in the buisiness. Especially Mike. He was even a bigger under-dog than Jerry. 4-1 for Jerry and 8-1 for Mike. Mike was a young 20 yr old lad while Foster was on his downward path at 33. So maybe this was the best time to catch Foster. Jerry wanted another chance at Ali to show "what he could really do" if not for the 3rd round stoppage (typical boxers attitude). Ali: What will you do with your white hope? Foster: Whip him, what will you do with yours? Ali: Ain't no white hope here (LOL). The fight was to take place at Madison Square Garden but Jerry insisted that Mike be on the undercard or else no fight. He made a big whine and fuss about it. Madison sqaure said forget it to which Quarry camp said "See Ya". Thus the new location of Las Vegas Palace (Think Jerry wanted Mike in the same arena to use as an excuse for when he lost to Ali). Sure enough both Ali and Foster gave the Quarry brothers a whippin. A frustrated Jerry even using some wrestling tactics by hoisting Ali up against the ropes. Mike was crushed in the 4th round.Mike claimed to not know what went wrong. That he was in control and had Foster where he wanted him. Okay...Whatever. Never saw the fight so don't know. One things for sure. A crushing left hook to the jaw took away any alleged control Mike may have thought he had. When asked by Foster why he took so long to beat Jerry Ali responded "It ain't right for the main event to end quicker than the preliminaries"(LOL). IT DIDN'T END THERE HOWEVER. Member's of the Quarry family got into fights with some Black folks in the crowd and hurling insults. Wether it was racial or not don't know. Some dude named Bob Coolbaugh (married to Brenda Quarry) lands his behind at the police station and is fined. The wives of Jerry and Mike also get into the mix. Now I know how the Quarry family get defensive about their boxers. It goes way back. PS: A policeman at the scene of the Quarry family scuffle claims the family put up an even better fight than the boxers in the ring (LOL). New York Times June 28th 1972.


kookooclock kookooclock000@yahoo.com Tue Jun 26 13:37:50 PDT 2001

Quarry in his best shape would have stood a chance against Liston... Lyle was so much like Liston you could hardly tell their styles apart.. Liston did not even come close to the kind of heart Quarry had!!! I know I said some things in the past.. But we all know Quarry was a true warrior.. So lets stop the BS!!


Karl Hegman karlhegman@aol.com Tue Jun 26 10:05:05 PDT 2001

Hi Everyone-Just wanted to rescind my ranking on Jerry-After a lot of thought-I couldn't come up with 20 Heavyweights that could have taken him at his best, when he was determined not to lose, no matter the cost or pain threshold he had to endure. I'd put him within the Top Twenty-around 15 through 18. There's no doubt in my mind he could whip lumbering brutes like Bowe, Carnera, and Tucker-And matchups against Charles, Walcott and Tunney would have been epics for sure. Peace to All-Karl


Karl Hegman karlhegman@aol.com Tue Jun 26 08:16:21 PDT 2001

Hey Everyone- I definitely think Jerry rates in the top 25-30 Heavyweights who ever laced on a pair of gloves. He was the real life David the Giant Killer. Some guys he took were just monstrous-Lyle, Mathis and Foster. I think he would have matched up very well with Sharkey, Schmeling and Braddock. I'd certainly rate him the favorite over Lennox Lewis, Bruno, Tubbs, Witherspoon and Greg Page (Who shows the heart of a Champion in coming back from a near death experience). Jerry had charisma and charm to match his ample talent-And he is one of the few famous athletes that you seldom hear a bad word about. I think Jerry and Holyfield would be about a pick 'em fight with both at their respective peaks, but I'd lean towards JQ slightly due to his commitment to the body. They both had similar styles and rhythm as Larry Merchant of HBO has pointed out. To close- I can't remember any heavyweight ever headlining Madison Square Garden more times than Jerry. Not Ali,Frazier,LaStarza-Karl


JIMMY DORSEY ronnyrains@yahoo.com Mon Jun 25 16:07:50 PDT 2001

I could not believe all the tv shows that JQ WAS ON. I DREAM OF JEANNIE,BATMAN, THEY A TEAM, SIX MILLION DOLLAR MAN, NIGHT RIDER, ONE ADAM 12,ELLERY QUEEN, A KEN NORTON MOVIE, 2 SUPERSTAR COMPETETIONS(ONE HE DID GREAT 1974). HE EVEN HAD A SMALL PART ON LAND OF THE GIANTS HA HA !


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Mon Jun 25 15:24:59 PDT 2001

Mr. Jimmy, I was fairly close to your neck of the woods Saturday and part of Sunday. I spent a beautiful Saturday night under a clear starlit sky at Anza and I took a peaceful drive down Highway 371 and Highway 79 back to my mother's in Murrieta as the sun came up. I saw the junction to Hemet off of 371, so I know I was fairly close to you. Beautiful area, I just hope they don't build it up too much. I can see why you wanted to return to it.


Ray joekevin@cs.com Sun Jun 24 20:26:57 PDT 2001

Hi James and family, I think it would be nice if we were able to learn and hear more about Mike Quarry. It would be nice to learn his thoughts about his career, and the fighter's he faced(not just Bob Foster). Mike was a true gladiator. He represents to me the essence of a boxer,long career,fame and popularity and security, fast and fleeting. He always gave a 100%, and was very articulate discussing his fights win, lose, or draw. Maybe you could forward his Email address to me, or post it so anyone who desires can contact him, and express our feelng of gratitude and awe.


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Sat Jun 23 11:45:43 PDT 2001

Mr. Jimmey, most of the people who visit here are behind Jerry and respect the Quarry family. It is only one or two "bozos" who like to cause trouble. Over at the Frazier site, someone compared the troublemakers there (and I have a feeling it is the same people as here) to "sewer rats," it is a very fitting description. LET'S HOPE THE "SEWER RATS" CRAWL BACK UNDER THE ROCK THEY CAME OUT FROM UNDER!


JIMMY DORSEY ronnyrains@yah00.com Sat Jun 23 09:25:20 PDT 2001

DEAR JAMES QUARRY: I know i consider you and your family a class act, if anything else the way youv'e treated me. Always had time to talk boxing etc. MIKE QUARRY WAS ALWAYS A CLASS ACT, when i talked to him at QUARRY'S CORNER IN bakersfield. I NEVER MET JERRY,it seems i was always just missing him at places like LAS VEGAS, LOS ANGELES, BAKERS ETC.i even followed MIKE nixons' career. YOU do not have to take up for yourself JIM you guy's record speaks for itself. take care and lets all talk real boxing.


Mr. Jimmy boxerquarry@netscape.net Sat Jun 23 07:49:34 PDT 2001

I just read an article about Oscar De La Hoya. What a jerk! When he first started, he was a nice kid. I was proud to have a picture of him with Jerry. He has lost his humility. He has fallen with the influince of the all mighty dallor. Now he thinks he is better than everyone else. Just remember Oscar, on your way down you will see the same people that were there on your way up. Please go back to the old Oscar that we all loved! If you don't you will be lonely as an old retired fighter. No one loves a jerk.


Troy Porter plmtrepepl@aol.com Sat Jun 23 07:12:31 PDT 2001

yes big Jimmy Jerry was one of the best top 20 fighters of all time and yes he was undersized with a bigger heart to make up for lack of size.as far as the bozos who repeatedly attack the Quarry name and family, they're the true losers and you all know who you are..they have no legacy's to fall on.always wondered how many of these people would back peddle if they ever came face to face with you or other family members.you know i've always got your back Pops.anyway remember one thing families will stick together and all others will fall to the wayside.to all the nay sayers remember only say what you would say to their face if you have the balls...and bring it on the rest of you fools....


SabrinaQuarry-Porter sabrinalporter@aol.com Sat Jun 23 06:16:58 PDT 2001

could't have said it better myself Dad.you hit the nail right on the head.keep up the good work.


James Quarry boxerquarry Fri Jun 22 22:44:32 PDT 2001

Yes, Jerry had very big wins over, Mathis, Lyle, Spencer, Foster. Foreman admitted he dodged Jerry. All these guys were very big. Even as big as Liston. No one can ever say that size alone could have whipped Jerry Quarry. Todays champions are like amatures compared to the fighter in the 60's and 70's. Lennux Lewis would not be able to go six rounds with Ali, Foreman, Holmes, Mathis. All he has is size and he is very slow. I admit he has a punch, with out it, he goes no where. Getting back to Liston. he was humiliated against Ali. Any fight with a brain could have whipped Liston. All these people who try to tear my family down is playing the old crab syndrom. Meaning a basket of crabs are on the beach and one keeps trying to get out. As he almost gets out the other crabs keep pulling it back in. I guess what I'm trying to say thses people do not have a life. It pleasures them to try to put us down because we have a life and a history. the whole world knows who we are. There nothing they can do about that. So they try to belittle my family. I'll use a saying that Jerry always used to say. You win some. You lose some and some you can't get tickets for, and some gets rained out. So what the problem. Jerry lost to some great fighters. However, Jerry had to talent, Punch and heart that on a given night, those loses could have been reversed. That's my opinion and I have a right to it. Nothing that anyone else can say can change that. No one, I repeat no one, no matter if they were the best of all time ever knocked Jerry out for the count. I mean face down. That is saying something considering Jerry was one of the smallest heavyweight in any era. I am very proud to have had him as my brother. In a street fight. there is no one who could have stood up to him. No one. One more thing. If Jerry did not cut like he did, history would be different. Jerry came with in an inch of being the best fighter ever as a heavyweight. But, it like the guy who misses the field goal in the Super Bowl with no time on the clock to win. Our sociaty only wants the winners. I consider Jerry to be a winner. He had the heart of a winner. The people who write on this letter page that try to belittle Jerry or my family are only trying to take us back to thier level. Us crabs are already out of the backet and can never be pulled back in the basket with them. So, really who are the losers? Not us. We'er not trying to pull them back in. They do that themselves, by saying the things they do. The true boxing fan knows Jerry was a very good fighter. His record makes him out not to be the best. But, he's up there with the best of all time. Even if it's not in the top 10 or 15. He's up there considering how many fighters there are in history. So people keep those cards and letters coming. You are just keeping Jerry's spirit alive. We Quarry's love a good fight. To this day, we can defend ourselves, so bring it on. We warn you though, be careful, we can fight. There Ain't no quit in a Quarry.


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Fri Jun 22 15:28:01 PDT 2001

Yes, let's not forget that Jerry beat Mathis, an imposing figure if ever there was one. Didn't someone write that Jerry wouldn't beat today's crop of fighters because of their size? I think they mentioned that Jerry couldn't beat Lennox Lewis because Lennox is "three times Jerry's size?" That person must have forgotten how many big fighters Jerry handled. Oh, that message was posted by "Da Clockman" who once again demonstrated a complete lack of knowledge on the fight game and boxing history. Thanks Clocky, for showing us how ignorant and uninformed you are.


Ray joekevin@cs.com Fri Jun 22 08:13:45 PDT 2001

Hi Friends, It will be 32 years ago tomorrow, June 23,1969, when Jerry Quarry fought Joe Frazier in MSG in New York. I was there, George Foreman made his pro debut, and Mike Quarry got the benefit of doubt in a close decision. I remmeber the night like it was yesterday, I was 15yo. Although, Frazier was favored, many people including your's truly were picking Jerry to win. Jerry's last fight was a convincing win over Buster Mathis, and Jerry was the underdog in that fight too. Jerry had nothing to be ashamed of that night, he gave Frazier a hell of a fight. I've spoken to Frazier in recent years and he has only good things to say about Jerry's courage and toughness. And Frazier is an honest man he calls them as he see's them.Jerry Quarry gone but not forgotten.


Whiskey in the Jar n/a Thu Jun 21 16:58:39 PDT 2001

hey clockster...you got a real big mouth but thats all u got...i wonder how long u would have lasted in the ring with quarry...you would have been on the canvas crying like a woman inside ten seconds...quarry was a kind, decent, person, unlike the spoiled brats and criminals that make up the pro atheletes of today...u sound gutless clockster, your like the loud guy in a bar mouthing off like he knows everything...crawl back in your hole and let the next person in line at walmart use the computer


Slade info@ptctel.com Thu Jun 21 12:05:25 PDT 2001

It's amazing how the passing of time can confuse you (me). I appologize to Ali, I thought it was him putting his head out of the ropes in the Young fight. Good day to you all..


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Wed Jun 20 23:13:35 PDT 2001

To add to what Karl said about walking into any gym, especially in Southern California, and bringing up Jerry's name, the only response you would get is one of the upmost respect. It is the people who don't know what they are talking about who bad mouth Jerry. I had the good fortune to have had the chance to meet and talk with Jerry one on one twice for about an hour each time. To be able to "belly up" to the bar with one of my biggest sports heros is something I will always treasure. Does it make me some sort of big shot? The answer is hell no! I am a obscure, everyday man who talks a better game than I ever fought. If I did have an ounce of talent to succeed in the ring at one time, I didn't have the drive and determination to make it happen. The point is I am just an average everyday man in a lot of respects, but Jerry didn't make me feel that way. He had a way to make someone feel like he is special and that he respected what he had to say and your were not just some fan bothering him, a celebrity. Almost everybody that ever had a chance to meet Jerry has said the same thing THAT JERRY WAS A CLASS ACT AND A FINE GENTLEMAN! That is why some of us will always jump to his defense. Jerry was a lot more than just another boxer!


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Wed Jun 20 21:30:46 PDT 2001

Basically, the "Clockster/KooKoo" is a mere annoyance. Don't even entertain the nonsense by responding to it. It's one thing to have spirited debate and respectful opinions, but it's another to come to this board and say hurtful things to the Quarry family about Jerry and other family members. And I'm as offended by the stupidity as I am by the hurtful content.


EATSHITCLOCKSTER FUCKYCLOCKSTER@HOTMAIL.COM Wed Jun 20 21:14:43 PDT 2001

HEY CLOCKSTER..YOUR A GUTLESS PIECE OF SHIT...I WOULD LOVE TO SEE YOU REPEAT WHAT YOU STATED HERE TO THER FACES OF QUARRYS FAMILY...YOU WOULD BE PISSING YOUR PANTS IF YOU EVER CAME FACE TO FACE WITH THEM...NICE TRY WITH EMAIL SCUMBAG


Karl karlhegman@aol.com Wed Jun 20 19:27:29 PDT 2001

Hey everyone- It's obvious to myself at least that the poster who uses the handle kookooclock has never been in a boxing gym, and has no first hand experience at the manly art. Jerry was hot topic in the 70's in the gyms throughout the world-Fighters and trainers wanted to know his training methods, how he developed the snap in his shots, how he did his roadwork, his diet, how many rounds a day he sparred, did he work the bags before or after he sparred, did he do wind sprints? How many sit-ups a day did he do, and did he do reverse crunches? Boxing people were intigued by this gifted and courageous fighter who frequently beat bigger men by his mastery of the fundamentals and never seen before (In the Heavyweight division) crisp and precise counter punching that comes from hundreds of hours of working the pads and other training work. With the exception of Muhammad Ali-I can't remember a more popular fighter in the whole sport in any weight division than JQ in the late sixties and early seventies. Gym talk is gym talk-It is neither politically correct nor incorrect-You have to be a fighter to understand-We all speak the same language regardless of our nationality or ethnicity, You have to be a fighter to understand. Cheers, Karl


Keith White Quarry73@Yahoo.com Wed Jun 20 19:18:11 PDT 2001

I have a response to DA Clockman, your recent response about a Quarry vs. Liston match-up is somewhat understandable but at the same time incredibly harsh! Jerry had the capacity to take big single punches to the head.... Don't forget that Jerry was never knockedout cold in his entire career (Frazier and Norton have been!) The truth is Jerry would have had a very good chance of beating Liston only if Jerry wouldn't suffer a bad cut. Even when the toughest of fighters are cut bad, they simply can't see punches coming. Also, Jerry was a great counterpuncher! Jerry has the best chance against a big puncher like Liston.


kookooclock kookooclock000@yahoo.com Wed Jun 20 13:19:07 PDT 2001

Mr. Quarry I have not been here in a long time... I see someone has been using my handle to attack you... I know we had our problems, but thats over with as far as I'm concerned. I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT JERRYS SEX LIFE IS NO BODYS F'NN BUSINESS. SO STOP THE LIES... SORRY MR. QUARRY


DA CLOCKMAN Clockster@aol.com Tue Jun 19 18:05:28 PDT 2001

Quarry beat Sonny Liston? AH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!! At what the "Irish Jig" (LOL)? Certainly not boxing. Sonny at his best would kill that that dimwitted clod. Simular to the Joe Frazier 2 fight. Only difference is Quarry's behind would be on the mat. He wouldn't want to get up. Now you have him matched against Marciano. Though I'm no big Marciano fan that would be another one sided beating. Frazier is simular to Marciano. You people have one active immagionation. Trying to make Jerry out to be better than he really was. Even during his life he acted the same way. Duh...I would've won if...SHUT UP! After every loss he says the same dumb thing. He cried out for rematches with both Ali and Frazier (as if he's at their level) and got his ass KTF OUT!!! Guyy losese Jimmy Ellis and George Chuvalo but thinks he can beat Ali and Frazier. If you can't beat a glorified Ali sparring partner (Ellis) what makes him think he could beat Ali himself. DUH! Think he was drunk on something. All them punches to the head of MUCH BETTER BOXERS. What next. Quarry vs Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis, Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis (3 times Quarry's size) etc. No need to discuss. The answer is clear. JERYY GETS KNOCKED THE F**K OUT!!! Oh no got to go. Oh how the time flies when you're having fun.


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Tue Jun 19 18:03:23 PDT 2001

Yes, Young was the one who put his head and torso outside the ropes in that Ali fight, and it took place at the Capital Center in Landover, MD. By the way, Young was oh so close to being a truly great fighter. He had a rocky start in his career, but really hit his stride after the loss to Ali. He beat Ron Lyle and Foreman, and in my opinion should have been awarded the decision against Norton, which would have set up a Young-Holmes fight for the title, with Young holding the belt!~ It would have been a tactical fight and if it went the full 15, maybe Young might have earned a decision. History might have been quite different. Of course, Holmes was a great fighter and might have KOed Young. Also, Young would have to defend against Earnie Shavers and that might have been a tough fight for him. Young slipped badly after losing to Norton, when he put on too much weight and lost two in a row to Ossie Ocasio. Yes, Young fought best at 207, and he came in too heavy against Ocasio to be effective.


Mr. Jimmy boxerquarry Tue Jun 19 14:47:22 PDT 2001

When I said the Jerry had sex before the last Frazier fight, I was not trying to give an excuse for Jerry performance. Jerry was fighting a better man that night as well as the first time Jerry fought Frazier. On the night Jerry fought Mac Foster, he was frustrated the first 3 rounds. Hid biggest problem was keeping his gaurd up. Jerry did not know how to go about setting Foster up. He figured it out at the end of the 4th. Jerry put on a relentless body attack to bring Fosters hands down. After that the fight was all his.


JIMMY DORSEY RONNYRAINS @YAHOO.COM Tue Jun 19 12:50:12 PDT 2001

HERE IS SOME TRIVIA FOR ALL US BOXING FANS WHO IS ONE OF THEY ONLY FIGHTERS TO HAVE PRO BOUTS IN 4 DECADES?? YOU GUESSED IT-JERRY QUARRY. MR.JIMMY I'D STILL LIKE TO KNOW YOUR CORNERSHIP EXPERTISE ON YOUR BROTHERS BOUT WITH MAC FOSTER. YOU KNOW WHEN YOU HAD THE GLEN CAMPBELL HAIR GOING ON? JIM WAS JERRY GETTING FRUSTRATED IN THE EARLY GOING ? OR DID HE JUST THINK IT WAS A MATTER OF TIME? TAKE CARE.


Mr. Jimmy boxerquarry Tue Jun 19 12:34:31 PDT 2001

Jerry's trainer Teddy Bentham stressed that jerry was not to have sex at least 6 weeks before a fight. This is all I can say on this matter.


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Tue Jun 19 04:52:44 PDT 2001

Just a typing away in the wee hours of the night and I thought I would take a break and pay a visit to Quarry land. Slade, it wasn't Ali who was sticking his head out of the ring in the Young fight, it was Young who did that. I felt Young landed more punches in the fight but maybe by sticking his head out of the ring he made a bad impression on the judges. Jimmy Young if I remember correctly,fought best at about 207 pounds, so he was smaller than a lot of the people he fought. Mickey, Rocky Balboa's mananger said in the first Rocky movie, "woman weaken legs." I think that maybe Ol "Mick" was right because Rocky always stayed away from Adrian during training, and he was able to say, "yo Adrian, I did it!"


Karl karlhegmana@aol.com Mon Jun 18 20:40:20 PDT 2001

Sorry to disagree with James- But when I was fighting amateur in the late 70's-My coach, former National Champion Mark Stokes-(Who idolized JQ) Always said-"Getting laid before a fight relaxes you and helps you sleep better-That's what Jerry Quarry Says!". For everyone of you articulate members who post here I can assure you-Sex before a fight does not affect your performance in a detrimental manner in any way. Jerry lost to Joe twice because Frazier was simply a superior fighter. Peace, Karl


Slade info@ptctel.com Mon Jun 18 19:53:25 PDT 2001

I got a Trivia Question wrong the other day. Question was, what fighter has wins over Floyd Patterson, Jersey Joe Walcott, Sugar Ray Robinson and Gus Lesnevich.... Without resources, I was thinking maybe Ezzard Charles. Answer: The late Joey Maxim.


Slade info@ptctel.com Mon Jun 18 19:45:25 PDT 2001

I noticed that Jimmy Young fought Ken Norton on the Night Jerry Fought Zanon. As I recall, Young had very close fights with Norton and Ali, and he beat Foreman in '78 or so (if memory serves me correctly)... I saw the Young-Ali fight, Ali kept sticking his head & torso out of the ring to avoid punches, I like Ali - always have and always will, but I think he "Jumped the Shark" (went to far in defensive tactics) in this fight. At any rate, Young always looked like the smaller fighter in these fights, anyone know what his fighting weight was?


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Sat Jun 16 14:14:25 PDT 2001

Let's not forget that Ali fought against the Japanese wrestler Antonio Inoki, back around 1975-76. And Mike Tyson was mixed up with the WWF for a while too. I think the boxers have fun with it. Other athletes, like Dennis Rodman and Karl Malone, also have gotten involved in wrestling. The fans seem to like it, and the athletes pick up a few bucks, get in the spotlight and have some fun.


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Sat Jun 16 12:15:56 PDT 2001

Gene or Roger, whatever your name is, I looked up Ali's record and I couldn't find the name of Rivera on it. Did he fight under a different name? Pro wrestlers are good atheletes who suffer very real injuries in the ring. Sure a lot of the punches are pulled and the outcome is known before the match is started, but a lot of the punches, especially these days, are connecting to give it a sense of more realism. They also get their heads slammed into tables and they get chairs smashed over their heads. It seems to be getting more and more violent. Within the last couple of years, a wrestler named Owen Hart was being brought into the ring from the ceiling of the arena when his support gave way and he fell 100 feet to his death in front of a live audience. While this can be said to be a freak accident, wrestlers are being asked to do more and more dangerous stunts and I have a lot of respect for them.


Mr. Jimmy boxerquarry Sat Jun 16 07:22:54 PDT 2001

Several fighters have become wrestlers. A movie was even made about it. Anthony Quin played this in Requim for a Heavyweight. I feel it's just another way for the athlete to stay in front of the fans.


Gene Ebert Movies@aol.com Fri Jun 15 15:28:58 PDT 2001

Speaking of fighters who became wrestlers after their retirement from the manly art of self- defense, the name of Mountain Rivera comes to mind. Mountain was a slow moving, but tough-as-nails heavyweight whose prime was in the 50's, when he reached the rank of number 5 rated heavyweight by Ring magazine. His last fight was agains't a young Cassius Clay who completely overwhelmed him with his speed and scored an easy knockout. Mountain retired when warned that further damage to his eyes could result in blindness. He was forced by his need of cash to become a wrestler. Mountain was given an Indian name, wore a war bonnet, and gave war cries as he entered the ring. I saw him wrestle once at Sunnyside Garden in New York, and it was very depressing seeing this once proud warrior being forced to act like a clown for a few dollars. Of course his fortunes changed and he was able to pin Sailor Art Thomas for the crown in a sold out Yankee Stadium. I guess persistance pays off! He married Lana Turner's oldest daughter and was living a quiet life in upstate New York. Does anybody have an update on Mountain?


Slade info@ptctel.com Fri Jun 15 14:38:48 PDT 2001

Over the years, a lot of fighters found interest and money in Pro-Wrestling. When I hear folks talk of Joe Louis in wrestling, it sounds depressing (folks speak of it as if it were a bad thing). When I hear folks speak of Ali working with the WWF in 1985 and Tyson working with them in the 90's, everyone speaks up-beat and positive, for the most part. I guess that shows how times change. Did Jerry ever consider an appearance in the wrestling field? I'd liked to have seen him jump in the ring and knock the block off Rowdy Piper or Jessie Ventua in those days. Just a thought, of course pro wrestling is nothing to take serious....


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Thu Jun 14 18:14:32 PDT 2001

We have had this dicussion before regarding Clancy's resposibility to stop the Norton fight after a fourth round battering in which he was bleeding profusely into his eye. I don't believe Jerry would have attacked Clancy in the locker room and that Clancy was scared to stop the fight. I think that Clancy listened to his fighter instead of the other way around. Jerry would have known better that Gil was doing the right thing after all, when the situation was reversed, and Jerry was working the corner of his brother Mike against Rossman, Jerry had the fight stopped to protect his brother from further punishment. Sure Mike didn't like it, but Jerry did the right thing and that is what Clacny should have done also.


Mr. Jimmy boxerquarry Thu Jun 14 17:44:29 PDT 2001

In the 2nd fight with Frazier. Jerry did not over train. The problem was,Jerry had to have his then wife, Charlie in his training camp. He even got laid the night before the fight. that's why he had no legs or strength. He was so insecure during that time for some reason. After Jerry fought Zanon, he retired again. He realized he could not move on as a fighter. he kept comming back. He missed the recognition. He always wanted to be a hero. He wanted to please his fans.


JIMMY DORSEY ronnyrains@yahoo.com Thu Jun 14 11:27:04 PDT 2001

DEAR PAUL: GIL did want to stop JERRY'S bout with NORTON after the 4th round. and JERRY would have none of it (gil was a smarter man than you think). HOW WOULD you like to face JERRY QUARRY in that locker room after you waved it off ? HA HA . TOO bad they could not have met prime for prime. WHO KNOW'S.


Paul Maduros pama42@yahoo.com Thu Jun 14 10:33:32 PDT 2001

Joe's style made it hard to hit him, with all that bobbing and weaving. The endurance factor Frazier also had on his side. So it is possible that Jerry could be a better technical fight than Joe, hit harder and still lose. Jerry proved in the Norton fight that he had as much guts as any fighter that ever stepped into the ring. If any time I should have seen a fight stopped it should have been that one. Clancy should have stopped it at the end of the 4th rd.


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Tue Jun 12 18:26:18 PDT 2001

Here's an interesting concept that obviously could never happen in real life but who would win? Slugger Jerry, like in the first Joe Frazier fight, vs. counter punching Jerry. Also Paul mentioned that Jerry seemed to be punching very hard in that first Frazier fight. Could Jerry himself have withstood the amount of punishment he dealt to Frazier?


Paul Maduros pama42@yahoo.com Tue Jun 12 13:14:34 PDT 2001

Jerry would have had to been at his best with Rocky. He would have to fight him like he did Lyle, in and out. Rocky was strong, but did not put on the kind of pressure that Frazier did. If you gave Jerry a chance to think , just a little bit(like Shavers did) Jerry might figure a way to outbox him. By the way I know some people will not agree with this but I thought Jerry hit harder than Frazier. If you listen to the sound of the punches in the first fight Jerry's sound harder. Also Jerry had better technique when he threw his punches, however we all know the final result of those fights.


JIMMY DORSEY ronnyrains@yahoo.com Mon Jun 11 17:40:21 PDT 2001

DEAR SLADE: one big reason JERRY QUARRY did not fight after the Lorenzo Zanon bout. Was he had an accident and broke his back in a pickup i believe he may have rolled it on a California ranch that was pretty near to where james DEAN met his demise. I have a clipping in an old boxing book somewhere. You are right THE RING MAGAZINE gave him an united states rating of 14th AND WORLD BOXING GAVE HIM AN 15TH WORLD RATING AFTER ZANON TAKE CARE.


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Mon Jun 11 17:31:56 PDT 2001

I have always thought that Jerry overtrained for the second Frazier fight and that he left the fight in the gym. 197 was just too light at that stage of his career. I think he should have come in at about 203 pounds. He just didn't have the strength to hold Smokin Joe off of him. He did box well for the first round of the fight though. It has been a while since I have seen the whole fight, but as I remember it,after that first round he tried to slug it out with Joe and fell into that trap. Slade, it is bad enough that Jerry even took the Zanon fight in the first place let alone another fight at that time. Jerry did more than enough to make his fans proud. I am sorry but around the time of 1978, Jimmy Young and even Leon Spinks would have handled Jerry easily. He was a finished fighter by that time.


Slade beav1986@yahoo.com Mon Jun 11 15:24:15 PDT 2001

I think a Quarry-Marciano fight could go either way. Although I would say the odds certainly favor Rocky, if the Quarry that fought Lyle or Spencer showed up, it would be a barn-burner. In those fights, Jerry fought very well AND didn't seem to tire out - he was determined to win, come hell or high water. However...if an "unfocused" Jerry showed up (or say, a few pounds overweight), I think it would be very hard for Jerry to keep up with the Rock.........The Zanon fight - does anyone know why Jerry didn't quickly follow-up with another fight after the Zanon fight? Was he too frustrated with his performance because of his long 2 1/2 layoff? Looking back at the media, they certainly had their eyes on him - also Don King seemed to have an interest (although I don't know the extent or the relationship Jerry had with King) - it's seems if he would have got back to training he may have worked his way into a shot at Jimmy Young or Leon Spinks....I think one of the polls had him ranked at #14 after the Zanon fight.


Sabrina Quarry-Porter SabrinaLPorter@aol.com Mon Jun 11 06:18:16 PDT 2001

whoever wrote that is an idiot.the way he sounded off at the end it sounds like coo coo.is that you who wrote that coo coo? who cares about timothy mcveigh, he's a murderer and he paid for his horrible crime against all those innocent people and children.......what a joke...


Kent oriononside@aol.com Mon Jun 11 00:21:20 PDT 2001

You are right Angelo, we can't out-knucklehead a knucklehead!


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Sun Jun 10 17:51:31 PDT 2001

Everyone: Tempting as it is, just ignore him. Once a moronic dunce, always a moronic dunce.


Timothy McVeigh Deathrow@aol.com Sun Jun 10 16:27:22 PDT 2001

As you know I have little time left. Glad I was given the extra few days though (thanks to corrupt FBI tactics). Just wondering what did Jerry Quarry think of my Oaklahoma deed. What was his opinion? Did he even have one or was he too punch-drunk to even understand what was going on (LOL). How did he adjust to his role as the "white-hope" of his era. Taking on the likes of Ali after after he was reinstated for his ant-vietnam stance (looking back I see Ali was right. US government mislead the public and sent thousands of soldiers to unecessarry slaughter). Did he beat any credible boxers? I know Ali and Frazier gave him an ass whipping. That's the price of being the white hope I guess. Get beat down by all them better black boxers. Black's lack of mental abilities is replaced by their superior athletic abilities I believe. What's the Quarry view on the corrupt US government? You claim to be of "Irish" background after all. Not sure how the irish contributed america (accept getting drunk at bars by out-drinking the other customers. High on the burben). Will think about it in my "final" moments (LOL). There's more I want to write but don't have the time (LOL). They've takin away all my "priveliges" in preperation for my big exit out of Indiana. Actually the big exit out of this world (LOL). Don't ask how I was able to get my message to you depite my situation. INCOMPETENT PRISON STAFF you may say (LOL). You can dwell on the privelage you of being the last people on the web to correspond with me. Oh no. Here come the impatient welcoming commitee (LOL). Time to get going (for good). Man how the time goes fast. Tick...Tock...Tick...Tock...COO COO............................!


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Sun Jun 10 13:48:14 PDT 2001

The boxing counter punching style that I think would have given Jerry the best chance of winning against Marciano would have been similar to the way that Jerry fought Ron Lyle. He moved in and out and gave Lyle angles to punch at instead of going straight at him. Laying on the ropes for a length of time might not ge a good strategy but then again, Marciano might not have seen such a style before, so it might have been effective. Most of the time size advantage is hard to overcome but what a lot of people forget is that there are exceptions to every rule and Marciano was the exception to this rule. He had the power of a much larger man plus the quick hands of a smaller fighter. That is what made him so special and hard to beat in any era.


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Sun Jun 10 12:21:10 PDT 2001

Maricano was before my time. Based on films of his fights, he was an animal/tiger! The fact that he retired unbeaten tells me that we don't know for sure how he could have been beaten in any given fight. I don't think a size disadvantage would mean that much to him---he seemed to bring larger fighters down to size. There are two scenarios I could picture: Dance around and outbox him for the full fight, like Ali would have tried to do. Or, go right at him and trade punches and hope for the best, like Foreman might have done. Laying on the ropes and trying to counterpunch would be deadly, based on what I've seen of the guy. His punches were heavier than they looked, rivaling someone with a 20 pound weight advantage. He might have stopped Jerry on cuts in the middle rounds. Since we never saw Rocky lose, it's hard to picture how it would happen---though Archie Moore seemed to be onto something. Jimmy Young style boxing/awkward tactics/countering might frustrate Marciano.


JIMMY DORSEY ronnyrains@yahoo.com Sun Jun 10 09:57:04 PDT 2001

JIMMY I 'M SORR I NOTICED I DID NOT MAKE MYSELF VERY PLAIN. i was talking about the MAC FOSTER BOUT OF COURSE I JUST READ MY own writing and did no even mention FOSTER My bad. we drove to GROVE OK. LAST NIGHT AND WENT TO A BAR THAT tommy morrison FREQUENTED. And i think i and the misses may have had a few too many.


JIMMY DORSEY ronnyrains@YAHOO.COM Sun Jun 10 09:52:01 PDT 2001

I HAVE a few questions for MR.JIMMY Q. JIM what would JERRY say between rounds when you worked his corner (with the GLEN CAMPBELL hair) JUST JOKING JIM. did JERRY lose the first couple of rounds? was he getting flustered at the size and reach differance? We all know how it ended up. And I know JERRY WAS LIKE A 12-5 UNDERDOG. I'LL BET YOU WERE PRETTY PROUD OF HIM. and it was a great bout for 6 rounds. TAKE CARE JIMMY AND KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.


JIMMY DORSEY ronnyrains@yahoo.com Sun Jun 10 09:29:00 PDT 2001

I AGEE on a lot of what everyone has written. I could never win this argument. But i think JERRY woudl have beaten MARCIANO. bigger.faster and he might even have hit harder and took a better punch. i could not see archie MOORE giving jerry any fits. and we will never know. I WISHED jerry WOULD HAVE STAYED AWAY FROM frazier in74'. And went ahead and got his TITLE fight against GEORGE. kent and angelo, I was trying to find an old picture of JERRY picking up two playboy bunnies on his shoulders. alas i think it is lost. and that is too bad, iIT WAS A GOOD ONE.


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Sun Jun 10 08:29:32 PDT 2001

Mr. Jimmy is up in the "wee hours" on a fine Sunday morn! "Top of the mornin to ya!" Rocky vs. Jerry, hum! Jerry would definitly have to box and counter punch in this one. To stand toe to toe with "The Rock" would be an unwise tactic and I see the same thing happening to Jerry that happened agaisnt Joe Frazier, in that he would probably be cut up and stopped in the middle rounds. I see Jerry having a chance of winning if he stuck to his fight plan. Let's hope for Jerry's sake that he didn't get his "irish up" at the first sign of trouble and revert to slugging it out with Rocky. I see this has being a great fight no matter who won as both fighters had great heart and determination.


Mr. Jimmy boxerquarry Sun Jun 10 06:27:12 PDT 2001

The fantasy match I always thought of would be Rocky Marciano. Let's hear some feed back.


Evren @btinternet.com Sat Jun 9 11:29:19 PDT 2001

I think the pick out of the bunch for those matchups would be the Holyfield - Quarry match....what a fight that would be !! Both similar in size both fast paced fighters (at their respective) peaks. Depending on how Jerry fought I believe this is a fight Mr Quarry could win..I believe that if he stood off somewhat and tried to outsmart Holyfield he would have a good chance as Evander usually chopped down the sluggers. Saying that Holyfield always did have ways of finding a way to win and he may have eaked out a very close decision with his superior fitness carrying him down the stretch...A real toss up...I'll get splinters sitting on the fence on this one !!!!!


James Quarry boxerquarry Sat Jun 9 07:01:38 PDT 2001

Jerry's son was working on a movie, however, some how it got turned into a documentary. From what I hear, it is not very good. My did tried to fight as a pro. He had a skin desease that prevented him to fight pro. I have a group of people still working on a movie. The production company is Shalamar Productions. Jerry and I started this back in 93. I wrote the story it is based on in 1982. Paul Drolet in Canada is writing a book. He has been working on it for over a year now. there is some high lites of it in our new magazine, which should be printed in the next 30 days.


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Sat Jun 9 05:43:59 PDT 2001

Here are some fantasy matchups for us to discuss: Quarry-Holyfield (Two warriors, small by heavyweight standards, lots of heart and two great chins). At their respective peaks, who would win, and how? Holmes-Liston (Both had sweet left jabs---Liston had more power, but Holmes could take a rude punch and Holmes had great tactical ability and the heart of a champion.) How would this one play out? Liston-Norton (In my opinion, the question wouldn't be who would win---it would be, could Norton make it through the first 30 seconds). But there are people who might disagree. When he focused, Norton could be awkward and hard to handle. I still think Liston would dominate. What does everyone else think?


charles anderson ctjjandfam@aol.com Thu Jun 7 18:26:42 PDT 2001

james, has there been any more thoughts about a movie about jerry?


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Thu Jun 7 13:53:38 PDT 2001

Mr. Jimmy: Did your father, Jack Quarry, ever fight as a professional? If so, what was his professional record and if not, what was his amatuer record?


Keith White Quarry73@Yahoo.com Wed Jun 6 19:34:53 PDT 2001

Hello friends, let us now imagine that Ken Norton was Joe Alexander on the night Jerry performed that spectacular knockout.... That would have been too cool!!!! Actually, on that night in the Nassau Colliseum Jerry would have had a great chance to beat Norton because he was in great shape that night.


slade beav1986@yahoo.com Wed Jun 6 17:17:46 PDT 2001

I watched several Liston fights last night. I tend to believe that by 1969, Jerry's hand speed and foot work would have been too much (and very frustrating) for a 1968-69 Sonny Liston. I could be wrong though.... Does anyone remember a fella by the name of Roy Harris from Cut-n-Shoot, Texas. I recall some comments he made going into his 1960 fight with Liston. He said he was going to use his speed over Liston to hit him and to avoid Liston's punches. Shortly into the first round, he was feeling his plan was going to work and that Liston was rather slow - then BOOM, out of no where Liston lowered the heavy lumber. Harris also fought a good fight with Patterson in 1958 (he had Patterson down early in the fight). In giving his opinion on the 1st Liston-Patterson Fight (Harris had recently fought both men and folks were interested to hear his opinion) Harris thought Patterson had a chance because of his speed.... Sometimes speed works, but sometimes brute force wins out (Foreman, Liston, Shavers...). I'd pick Jerry over the older Liston. I wish liston was still with us today. I bet, like others we have seen, Liston would have became a popular person that many people would have liked to have gotten to know - times change, and I think he would have too.... Great site James, have a good day all.....


JIMMY DORSEY ronnyrains@yahoo.com Sun Jun 3 19:48:00 PDT 2001

yes kent I know for a fact you are right about RON LYLE being a security guard last i heard from my FRIEND leroy caldwell.lyle was pretty far up the ladder in a LAS VEGAS casino. having moved from there in 99' i cannot remember which one. Also ANGELO asked about LEROY. and he was a very good guy who is still in tremendous shape he fought the whos who of they heavyweight division and gave a good account of himself his record was not impressive . AND he lost a lot of bum decisions took big bouts on little or no notice i'll tell you this. HE WAS THE FIRST to take LYLE the distance . on a JERRY QUARRY-TONY DOYLE undercard at the playboy hotel in LAKE GENEVA WISCONSIN IN 1971.


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Sun Jun 3 10:17:12 PDT 2001

Yes, the parade of fighters Jerry took on were impressive in size. Mac Foster was chiseled and Lyle was a big, strong dude. Shavers had a weight advantage too. Being outweighed in a fight can be a big problem. I used to be pretty good at picking the winners of fights. I remember taking Aaron Pryor to beat Alexis Arguello. My friends/fellow boxing fans disagreed, because Alexis was a fine fighter. But I went with Pryor almost solely on the fact that he was naturally bigger/heavier and would wear Arguello down. In contrast, I picked Ray Leonard to beat Hagler, which went against my normal instincts. I turned out to be correct, though many people thought Hagler was jobbed. In that fight, my reasoning was based on styles. Of course, I've been wrong plenty of times as well---as much as I liked and respected Larry Holmes, I thought Leroy Jones could manage a win by wearing Larry down with his size advantage and surprisingly quick hands. Instead, Holmes jabbed him at will and won by an 8th round TKO. I was right about Ali beating Foreman though!


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Sun Jun 3 10:06:57 PDT 2001

One more thing, it is pretty amazing how well Jerry did in his career considering he was outweighed in at least 41 out of 66 pro fights. I remember a few years ago that while I was at a casino in Nevada, that I believe I saw Ron Lyle working as a security officer at the Casino (which is amazing as he was an ex-con). I had heard that he worked in security, and I think it was him, but I am not sure because I didn't speak to him. Anyway, if it was Lyle, the man was huge and I felt small as the man passed by! I am just under six feet tall and I met Jerry in person and I felt about the same size as him. I also met George Foreman and just like the man who I thought was Lyle, I felt small standing next to big George. I can't even imagine having to step into the ring with such large men let alone having a chance of winning. Yes our Jerry was an amazing fighter considering how well he did agaisnt bigger opponents.


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Sun Jun 3 09:41:05 PDT 2001

Jimmy D. I felt like we were the Stooges the way we were going back and forth about the location of the Corletti fight. I am not sure who would be Larry and Curly, but I think that Mr. Jimmy should be Moe as he is our unofficial "fearless leader." Don't the winners of events say they are going to Disneyland after they win? It wouldn't surprise me that Bugner would avoid Jerry. It seemed that Jerry feasted on young up and comimg fighters trying to make a name for themselves-ie-M. Foster, Lyle, Shavers,Bodell, etc. Bugner probably would have taken the fight around 1974 or 1975 when Jerry was on the way down though. That way, because of "relative youth" ringwise, he would have had a better chance of beating Jerry.


JIMMY DORSEY ronnyrains@yahoo.com Sun Jun 3 07:47:06 PDT 2001

KENT; IF YOU FIND OUT FORSURE ON THE QUARRY/CORLETTI BOUT LET ME KNOW. i looked up an old WORLD BOXING mag AND it said under FORUM results and about half way down the page it had corletti out TKO 2;58 were GEORGE latka DID NOT EVEN BOTHER TO COUNT. it was just a small clipping also saying that JERRY was they no.2 contender. at least KENT we know it was not at 18th and grand. strelich stadium, or DISNEYLAND. although CORLETTI was probably in Disneyland after jerry got thru with him.also in this magazine JERRY QUARRY with his wife kathy received an award and they looked like they were really happy. I would say JERRY would beaten BUGNER easily. BUG ducked JERRY on more than one occasion. and 69' LISTON i would say JERRY with youth being served. And IWOULD HAVE TO GIVE JOE FRAZIER the nod too. BUT PRIME FOR PRIME definetly SONNY LISTON. TAKE CARE AND THAT WAS A GOOD THREE STOOGES IMPRESSION.


ray joekevin@cs.com Sat Jun 2 16:22:52 PDT 2001

Hi friends, interesting comments about Joe Frazier and Jerry Quarry fighting Liston, late in Liston's career and the outcome. I have to admit all the scenarios mentioned made since. But, my logic is based on the Liston in July of 1968 (granted well past his prime), fighting the Frazier or Quarry who went to war with each other in 1969. My feeling is that if Frazier took it to Liston like he took it to Quarry in June of 1969, Liston would have stopped him; likewise the Quarry who fought Frazier in June of 1969, if he took it Liston like he took it to Frazier in that fight in June 1969, Quarry would also have been stopped. My feeling is that styles make a fight, and when Leotis Martin beat Liston in Dec 1969, Martin retreated for the 1st seven rounds. I don't see Jerry or Joe retreating against Liston. Someone questioned Liston's heart when the going got tough, they may have a point there. Both Joe and Jerry had great heart, and that might have made the difference in the late 60's against Liston. Like a lot of bullies, if Liston could not intimidate you he became weak, in the late 60's he was vulnerable.


James Quarry boxerquarry@netscape.net Sat Jun 2 06:59:47 PDT 2001

Thanks Kent, we received your donation and we thank you for you continued support. It's people like you who make a difference. We are working on a cover for the TJQF Mag. Should have it ready with in this next week, then we can print. Jerry sparred with Bugner in England, when Jerry was to fight Bodell. Jerry would have handled Bugner easilly. Jerry tought Bugner how to go to the body and then to the head in succession, when a fighter was backed to the ropes.


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Sat Jun 2 06:46:48 PDT 2001

My biggenst concern for Jerry in a Liston fight (at any point in Liston's career) would be possible cuts. Liston's jab was always good. Jerry cut so often---if Liston landed around the eyes and opened a cut, it could change the complexion of the fight. How do you think a Bugner-Quarry fight would have played out around 1973-74? Bugner could take a punch and seemed to be able to play with the big boys. How would you evaluate this fight?


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Fri Jun 1 20:33:55 PDT 2001

I agree with Johnny Q that both Jerry and Joe Frazier could have beaten Sonny Liston around the time of 1969 or 1970. Jerry by decision or late round stoppage and the same for Joe. Prime against prime would have been a different story. Liston had faster hands then and Joe would not have been able to bull his way in as easily without paying the price. While I do believe that Jerry would have been able to avoid the jab from a near end of the career Liston and frustrate him with his counter punching ability, an in prime Liston would have been able to bust up Jerry for a mid round stoppage. The thing with Liston though at any stage of his career was his punching power and he was always one punch away from victory.


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Fri Jun 1 20:26:22 PDT 2001

Johnny Q. makes an interesting point at the end of his post--- Liston, when put on the defensive, seemed to lose composure. Let's face it, Frazier AND Quarry would have fought back, and fought back hard. In his prime, Sonny could have beaten almost anyone. But at the twilight of his career, he was beatable.


Johnny Q. JohnQW@yahoo.com Fri Jun 1 13:10:02 PDT 2001

Liston was an awesome fighter, but after watching a compilation I have of his fights, I don't think he would have beaten either Jerry or Joe Frazier by 1969. Liston was much slower and not the aggressive mauler he had been. Liston's Gladiator-style defeats of Patterson make him look unbeatable, but though Patterson was a great fighter, he was not a big heavyweight with major punching power, and had a glass chin as well. In 1969 both Jerry and Joe were approaching their peak form, and aside from the inactive Ali, they were easily the best heavyweights in the world at the time. Jerry was very hard to hurt and his counterpunching skills would have frustrated Liston. As far as Frazier as being made to order for Liston, that may have been true in their respective primes, but the last few years of Liston's life were also Joe's peak years, and Joe himself was amazing during that time. Also Liston, as we discovered after Ali, didn't do as well when the other guy fought back.


Kent orion etc. Wed May 30 22:27:11 PDT 2001

"HEY MOE, I THINK THAT JERRY FOUGHT AT THE OLIMPIC." "SHUT UP YA LUNK HEAD, I KNOW FOR SURE THAT JERRY FOUGHT AT THE FORUM." "HEY MOE, WHY DON'T YOU LEAVE HIM ALONE? OUCH! LET GO OF MY HAIR!" "OH A WISE GUY," SAID CURLY, AS MOE MISSES WITH HIS TRADEMARK EYEPOKE, "I KNOW FOR SURE THAT JERRY FOUGHT AT THE LA SPORTS ARENA, KNUCK! KNUCK! KNUCK!" It does make sense that the Corletti fight would have been at the Sports Arena as it is near the museum and that does ring a bell. I have to find a clipping or something to say for sure once and for all. Sorry to people who live in other areas who have no idea what we are talking about as they have never been to the Los Angeles area.


James Quarry boxerquarry@netscape.net Wed May 30 20:36:21 PDT 2001

This message is for Paul Drolet. Please contact me at the above address. I have an important contact for you and our project. I lost your e-mail address.While I'm here I think kent is correct. LA Sports Arena.


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Wed May 30 20:16:30 PDT 2001

Now I am really confused. My dad is no longer with us so I can't ask him where the Corletti fight was at. He would probably say it was at the L.A. Sports Arena, as that is about the only place that we haven't said it was at. I think he actually stayed and used his ticket that he bought as he liked Jerry as a fighter. Jimmy D., James was referring to the L.A. convention center in downtown L.A., not Anaheim, and that does make sense because I believe that the Olimpic is in the same general area as the convention center. I may even take a drive down there to refresh my fuzzy memory to see if that much is true


JIMMY DORSEY ronnyrains@yahoo.com Wed May 30 18:40:36 PDT 2001

MR. JIMMY,Q. QUARRY/CORLETTI bout was at the Anaheim convention center really? I never thought Jerry ever had a pro bout there (exhibitions). I know MIKE beat RAY"WINDMILL" WHITE there. But MR. QUARRY you should know and i would never doubt ya.your old brother in law would have give all those middles hell if he could have took a shot like JERRY or MIKE.


JIMMY DORSEY ronnyrains@yahoo.com Wed May 30 18:10:56 PDT 2001

KENT, considering they corletti/quarry BOUT was in the fabulous forum, and im about 95% SURE. JERRY was 17-1-1 at they olimpic auditorium as a pro with 9 knockouts and never off his feet in those bouts. and beat JOHNSON,ORBILLO,MITEFF.LONDON, AND THE BIG ONE PATTERSON.JERRY had 2 bouts at the sports arena 2 at the COLISEUM and the two at INGLEWOOD(corletti,doyle) I also link QUARRY to the olimpic auditorium. BUT mostly MADISON SQAURE GARDEN. ALSO thank you MR. JAMES QUARRY for the info iv'e completed 58 of the weights of jerry;s bouts now and he was outweighed in 41 of those 58 but not outgunned TAKE CARE


James Quarry boxerquary Wed May 30 18:01:19 PDT 2001

The Corletti fight was not at the olympic. It was not at the Forum. If my memory serves me correctly it was at the convention center in LA. by the musium. I was there. Now on Liston. The WBA Tournament only used the top eight contenders. Liston was not one of them. I never heard of a potential fight for Jerry with Liston. That jab that Liston had was awsom. Jerry ate jabs for lunch. He just couldn't seem to get out of the way. Don't get me wrong he had his moments. For the most part if you had a real good jab, you could whip Jerry Quarry. But if you didn't look out.


ray joekevin@cs.com Wed May 30 16:27:50 PDT 2001

Hi friends, Slade regarding Sonny Liston, when he defeated Henry Clark in July of 1968, the fight was telecasted on Wide World Of Sports. Liston, when interviewed after stopping Clark, by Howard Cosell, stated he wanted to fight Jerry Quarry next. Liston had a difficult time even in the late 60's, getting matches. It was the feeling by many boxing experts at the time that Liston was still probably the most dangerous fighter around (with Ali unlicensed). Styles make a fight and Joe Frazier was made to order for Liston at the time (as George Foreman later proved). Quarry, also probably would have been susceptible to Listons awesome jab and left hook and if he was not knocked out he probably would have been stopped on cuts.Liston would have overpowered Jimmy Ellis. Liston was beaten in December of 1969 by Leotis Martin. Liston dropped Martin in the 4th round and then ran out of gas and was stopped in the 9th round. A little known fact about Leotis Martin was that he was a Liston sparring partner when liston was the champ, and as a result he was not intimidated by Liston when they fought. Martin sufferred a detached retina in the fight and his career was over, he could not get a license after that fight. The reason why Liston was not in the WBA Tournament, after quitting in the 7th round against Ali, and then being stopped in the 1st round by Ali, promoters and the boxing commissions felt that he was a bad risk, and poor attraction and did not want to get involved with him. And the ranked fighters (fearful of getting beat by Sonny) were only to happy do avoid Sonny. Slowly but surely he started fighting and winning overseas in Sweden, and later in the USA, and when he started building up a following ABC took a chance with him on Wide World Of Sports, and he stopped Henry Clark. The fight he lost to Martin was also on Wide World. His last fight was against Chuck Wepner in June of 1970, by that time he was a trial horse, even so, he stopped Wepner in 10 rounds on cuts. Liston must have been at least 45 at the time. Sonny Liston on his best night as a young fighter in the 50's was damm near unbeatable, he defeated all the top contenders Floyd Patterson ducked RE: Valdes,Machen Willians, Folley... Patterson kept him waiting almost 4 years. After they fought we realized why Patterson waited so long. Sonny Liston will always be a mystery, people have clues about his story, but I am afraid the complete story will never be learned.


Slade chrome@cycles4me.com Wed May 30 15:15:08 PDT 2001

Was there ever talk of a Quarry-Liston fight in the late 60's. Liston was fairly active between 1966-69, during that period he was 13-1. Has anyone heard Jerry talk about a fight with Liston (there probably wasn't much to gain in a Liston fight at that time).....On a related item, does anyone know why Liston was not invited into the '67-'68 WBA Tournament to determine a new Champion (was he not rated high enough at that time? - or was it that the public didn't have an interest in paying to watch him fight?. Any predictions on a late '60s Liston-Quarry fight?


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Wed May 30 10:55:49 PDT 2001

I guess I stand corrected about the Corletti fight being at the forum and not at the Olimpic Auditorium. I wonder why I associate Jerry with the Olimpic? Anyway, the Olimpic Auditorium was a great place to see a fight and it had frequent fight cards for years. Something I do remember correctly is that I saw my friend in his only professional fight (I don't want to mention his name especially if he remembers the fight at all) get knocked out cold by one punch in the second round of a four round prelim fight. He was winning the whole fight up to that point and he ran into a right uppercut and he fell face first onto the canvas. It was a very scary moment and it was as if I was watching my friend go down in the Titanic with no way to help him. I just wonder how it must have felt for Jerry's family to watch him take some of the punishment he took. Another fond memory is that in about 1987, I worked security at an all day "punk rock" marathon and I think my ears are still ringing from that one. I guess the promoters figured the Olimpic was perfect for such an event because how can you wreck a place that already looks wrecked? Anyway, I am getting off on a tangent here. I guess the point is that boxing needs local places like the Olimpic to showcase up and coming talent on a regular basis.


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Wed May 30 03:19:37 PDT 2001

Actually, if I recall correctly, the Crusierweight division wasn't established until very late in Jerry's career, probably the late 70's or early 80's. Prior to that, you had to jump from Light Heavyweight to Heavyweight. Jerry would have been a long reigning Cruiserweight Champion had that division existed during his career. Of course, knowing Jerry, he would have moved up to take on the Heavies anyway.


Johnny Q. JohnQW@yahoo.com Tue May 29 22:29:38 PDT 2001

Just a follow up to my earlier post. I didn't mean to imply that Quarry, Olivares and Foreman were on the same card the night of the Corletti fight. This was a syndicated independent TV series that went on for a year or so, and there was only one headliner for each show. Quarry, Foreman and Olivares were all featured on different nights. I think the series was "Boxing At The Forum" or something like that. It's great reading the other letters about this fight.


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Tue May 29 21:41:27 PDT 2001

Jimmy D. I still can't get out of my head the idea that the Corletti fight was at the Olimpic (I am not sure how to spell it)though I do realize that Davies promoted the forum fights and that a lady named Eileen Eaton promoted bouts at the olimpic. There is one fight that I am sure that Jerry had at the forum, and that is the last Tony Doyle fight, which was on the undercard of Ali/Norton two. I am going to try and do some homework and find out what the correct answer is. James, any memory of where the Corletti fight was at?


James Quarry boxerquarry Tue May 29 19:38:42 PDT 2001

This is some information that Jimmy Dorsey asked for. Doyle - 203 lbs. Eastling - 196 lbs. Machen - 193 lbs. I was not able to find Orbillo's weight. I'll keep looking.


JIMMY DORSEY ronnyrains@yahoo.com Tue May 29 19:17:15 PDT 2001

KENT the main reason i kinda knew that particular bout was at the forum is because MICKEY DAVIES PROMOTED and interviewed jerry and at the time his bouts were on tv and out of the forum. JERRY had pro bouts at the sports arena, and one (leslie bordon) AT THE VALLEY MUSIC HALL AT WOODLAND HILLS. were MIKE and MIKE NIXON had a lot of bouts. JERRY'S pro debut was at the outdoor COLISEUM and so was his first bout with FLOYD PATTERSON. Another thing is i know of at least 8 fighters JERRY QUARRY beat that were world rated at the time he defeated them real quick. FLOYD PATTERSON (rematch) Went from #3 to #5. THAD SPENCER #2, buster mathis #6, Mac foster #1, JACK BODELL #8,LARRY MIDDLETON #7,RON LYLE #3, ERNIE SHAVERS #6, take care


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Tue May 29 18:53:17 PDT 2001

Jimmy D. it is possible that Quarry/Corletti was at the forum. My dad took my friends and I to a lot of events and maybe it was there. I seem to connect the forum with basketball (the Lakers) even though in more recent years I have attended fight cards at the forum. Funny how memory is selective. I do know I saw several fight cards back then and I somehow connect the Corletti fight with the Olimpic. I do know for sure that Foreman was not on the card as I have never seen George fight live. Maybe there wasn't an age restriction and I wasn't such a big shot for getting in. I was basing that assumption on the fact that now at our Indian casino in Temecula, Ca; no one under 18 is allowed into the fight cards. That could be going along with the policy for the whole casino though.


JIMMY DORSEY ronnyrains@yahoo.com Tue May 29 18:25:00 PDT 2001

KENT APPEL: Kent are you sure the Quarry-Corletti bout was not in they INGLEWOOD FORUM ? I remember watching they interview before the fight (a week before). AND JERRY received a lot of applause from the crowd and they cheered him. AND Booed my buddy MIKE Q. JERRY QUARRY said he wanted to give the fans a good fight and they cheered him again. jerry was ranked #2 over FOREMAN and behind CHAMP-FRAZIER #1-ALI. CORLETTI earlier had given JOE BUGNER a spirited bout. and really trained hard for JERRY as he weighed 202. QUARRY 203 1/2. But once the got in the ring EDUARDO had no chance. As jerry took him out with some powerful shots CORLETTI WAS ranked #7 AT one time.


Mr. Jimmy boxerquarry Tue May 29 18:03:04 PDT 2001

You bet, Angelo. Jerry would not have stayed as a cruiser weight. Jerry's ego was to big. He wanted to be the heavyweight champion. Everytime he would fight for the title, some was missing. The only time Jerry was mentally and physically ready for the big one, was Ali #1. We know what happened. I wish I could figure out why Jerry's performance was lacking in the big one. I could have been, he just got his ass whipped. Still I wonder and will always wonder.


Angelo funktron@yahoo.com Tue May 29 17:17:13 PDT 2001

Actually, if I recall correctly, the Crusierweight division wasn't established until very late in Jerry's career, probably the late 70's or early 80's. Prior to that, you had to jump from Light Heavyweight to Heavyweight. Jerry would have been a long reigning Cruiserweight Champion had that division existed during his career. Of course, knowing Jerry, he would have moved up to take on the Heavies anyway.


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Tue May 29 15:12:35 PDT 2001

The Corletti fight was at the Olimpic Auditorium in downtown Los Angeles. The George Foreman fight was not part of the live card but if I remember correctly, the Olivares fight was part of the card, a co-main event. The Foreman fight must have orginated from somewhere else and was included in the broadcast. The Olimpic Auditorium was a one of a kind place with atmosphere you had to see to believe. The dressing rooms were something out of the Roman gladiator days or straight from the Flintstones cartoon show. They were very stark in apperance painted in a very ugly beige color and their low celings lent to the Spartan like atmospere of the place in general. I hear the place has been remodeled which is a shame because there isn't another place quite like the old Olimpic.


charles anderson ctjjandfam@aol.com Tue May 29 14:50:05 PDT 2001

how come jerry never fought as a cruiserweight? i think he could have finally won a world title, don't you?


Johnny Q. JohnQW@yahoo.com Tue May 29 13:43:24 PDT 2001

The Eduardo Corletti fight in 1972 was the first time I saw Jerry on television. The fight may have been live, and was shown as part of a Friday Night Boxing series that was syndicated to independent stations around the country. The program looked like it came out of L.A., and featured many great fighters, including Ruben Olivares in a title fight, and George Foreman in what was probably his tune-up for Frazier. Anyway, Jerry's fight didn't last very long. I remember the fight starting out slow. Jerry seemed in no hurry, then BOOM! One lightning shot and it was over. Jerry was interviewed after, talked about his trainer, and the announcer said something to the effect that Jerry would have won against Ali had it not been for the cut. Jerry was gracious, accepted the compliment but left it at that. He seemed in good spirits and more interested in looking ahead.


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Tue May 29 13:35:11 PDT 2001

Slade, I was at the Corletti fight and all I remember is that Jerry was devastating. It is funny that I was only 13 years old and looking back I thought there was an age limit on boxing night (they also had pro wrestling shows at the arena). If there was an age limit, then maybe my dad knew someone who worked at the arena and his friend let me and my friends stay. I seemed to remember that my dad got free tickets also. Anyway, my father would often leave me and my pals before the end of the boxing or wrestling matches and then pick us up when it was over. So there we were just kids in a loud boisterous crowd watching the mayhem in the ring and even sometimes in the stands among the crowd. Back to Jerry. I remember being in awe about how good he was and I thought to myself, "if Jerry looked that good, I wonder how good fighters like Muhammed Ali, who defeated Jerry, must be."


john john@msn.com Tue May 29 13:31:22 PDT 2001

To bad there are not any decent Irish fighters in boxing rite now....


Paul Maduros pama42@yahoo.com Tue May 29 13:19:48 PDT 2001

Look's like were making a lot of progress here. Lets all keep up the good work!


shane shane_one2000@yahoo.com Tue May 29 13:01:29 PDT 2001

hell of a fighter. the boxing world will remember him.


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Tue May 29 11:38:55 PDT 2001

I think that you are correct in your opinion that parents should participate more in their childs upbringing, to steer them away from crime. Trouble is a lot of these childrens' parents are the dope pusher or the thief or come from such a poor (morally) backround that they would'nt even know right from wrong. As you probably know, London is one of the most prevalent crime areas and some of the way children are brought up is astounding; Parents letting their children to roam the streets at a young age just to get them out of the way so they can prostitute themselves. Education, perhaps is the key, but sports, such as boxing, does provide some with a light for the end of their tunnel. I do not see a quick change about in the fortunes and education system in certain areas, so Boxing, at least for the time being will provide a focus for those who have no other way out. We have a problem over here with 'underground' boxing...illegal fighting; do you guys think that a ban in proffessional boxing would be detremental in terms of the game being driven underground, causing far more deaths and injuries than currently occur. I believe it would...


Evren Evren@btinternet.com Tue May 29 11:38:41 PDT 2001

I think that you are correct in your opinion that parents should participate more in their childs upbringing, to steer them away from crime. Trouble is a lot of these childrens' parents are the dope pusher or the thief or come from such a poor (morally) backround that they would'nt even know right from wrong. As you probably know, London is one of the most prevalent crime areas and some of the way children are brought up is astounding; Parents letting their children to roam the streets at a young age just to get them out of the way so they can prostitute themselves. Education, perhaps is the key, but sports, such as boxing, does provide some with a light for the end of their tunnel. I do not see a quick change about in the fortunes and education system in certain areas, so Boxing, at least for the time being will provide a focus for those who have no other way out. We have a problem over here with 'underground' boxing...illegal fighting; do you guys think that a ban in proffessional boxing would be detremental in terms of the game being driven underground, causing far more deaths and injuries than currently occur. I believe it would...


Kent Appel oriononside@aol.com Tue May 29 10:18:20 PDT 2001

DKS, it is interesting what is defined as crime and how some areas are perceived as high crime areas while others are not. I remember working with a black man who had lived in Harlem, New York his whole life who had just come to the sunny suburbs of Orange County, California. He commented that he liked the fact that there didn't seem to be any illegal drugs in the area and that he liked it that it seemed like a clean safe area. It is safe relatively speaking, but he was shocked when I told him that if someone wants illegal drugs in O.C. Ca, you name it, and you can find it. The difference between the white areas and some of the so called minority areas is that in the white areas, it is much more behind closed doors. You won't find the neighborhood pushers "hawking their wares" out on the street corner. Drugs are still a major problem for white youth just as they are for black and other minority youth. The problem with some of the white suburban kids is that a lot of them are educated. How do we combat such a problem with education when some of the offenders are educated? I guess we can "drill" it in their heads at an early age that drugs are no good and hope it sinks in. A lot of people like to think that what I said about white suburbea is not true but it is true. The so called safe streets are not as safe as they seem. Just be labled a "Narc" by a speed (Meth Amphetamine)dealer or the user crowd, and see how long they last in those safe streets. I have never been a user of illict drugs but unfortunatly I have known some unsavory characters in my time and I would hate to see someone put what I said to the test. Back to boxing. I do think that it could play a role in curbing things like the drugs abuse problem but it is true that it is only one avenue to try. The problem centers on the parents teaching their kids right from wrong and being more a part of their kids' lives from an early age. That way the kids will be better prepared when the strong challenges of peer pressure comes around in the teen years.


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