Massimo
What surprises me is how light Billy Hunter was: only 87 Kg for the Machen fight.
Massimo
Jimmy-
Machen, of course, was very good. He was only about 5'11", but was very strong physically and could punch.
George Chuvalo described Mike De John as one of the hardest punchers he ever fought. The guy could bang! Mike lost to Sonny Liston by kot 6 in 1959.
Billy Hunter has a few good wins on his resume (in particular one over Bob Baker and 2 over Alex Miteff). He lost too to Sonny Liston (by KOT 2). He didn't do bad against Machen, but Eddie was clearly the superior fighter. What surprises me is how light Billy Hunter was: only 87 Kg. He was 6'3" and looked pretty big with wide shoulders, I would give him like 230 lbs. Today there are 6'1" boxers who don't look bigger than Billy Hunter but weigh 250 lbs.It's like as though in those times a boxer's body had somehow lower density than it does today.
Eddie Machen vs Billy Hunter was really a good fight.
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JD
email me MASSIMO, I have new stuff to send u, Was Hunter and those guys good, they must have been, erskine, richardson, roy harris- the texan fronm the knife and gun club texas
Massimo
I'm about to watch the Mike De John vs Billy Hunter fight. I'm probably gonna be very soon one of the biggest experts on Billy Hunter's career on this site.
I also wonder how would Mike De John do today.
Massimo
It was really a good fight, now I see why people are so obsessed with it!
Massimo
By the way, I'm about to watch one of the most discussed and analyzed fights ever: Eddie Machen vs Billy Hunter (1960). Still today a lot of people all over the world are simply obsessed with that fight. Certainly Billy Hunter was hunting for trouble when he chose to fight Eddie!
These are the fights Eddie Machen had in 1960. Ali spent part of that year in The Eternal City.
1960-12-19 90.3 Wayne Bethea 95.3 21-12-2
Auditorium, Portland, Oregon, United States W UD 10 10
referee: Eddie Volk 99-96 | judge: George Robinson 99-96 | judge: Herman DeVault 100-95
1960-09-07 88.9 Sonny Liston 95.7 30-1-0
Sicks' Stadium, Seattle, Washington, United States L UD 12 12
referee: Whitey Domstad 112-119 | judge: Ely Caston 114-118 | judge: Sam Heller 116-118
Liston penalized three points for low blows.
1960-06-08 88.5 Alonzo Johnson 85.7 17-5-0
Chicago Stadium, Chicago, Illinois, United States W UD 10 10
49-45 | 47-45 | 47-44
1960-05-20 86.5 Alex Miteff 92.1 22-5-1
Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, United States W UD 10 10
Scoring: 8-1-1, 8-1-1, 7-3
1960-02-26 88.9 Billy Hunter 87.0 18-6-3
Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, United States W TKO 9 10
time: 2:11 | referee: Al Berl 6-1 | judge: Mike Davidowitch 7-1 | judge: Jack Gordon 6-2
Hunter was knocked down in the 4th.
1960-01-18 90.3 Zora Folley 88.0 49-3-2
Cow Palace, San Francisco, California, United States L UD 12 12
JD
OH YES I AGREE, ALI/MACHEN. AND YES THEY SHOULD HAVE THEIR OWN ANNOUNCER HALL OF FAME, COME ON MICHAEL BUFFER AND AL BERNSTEIN , THEY GET PAID FOR NOT TAKING PUNCHES, BOXING HOF, MEANS YOU GET PAID FOR TAKING PUNCHES, I'D BE MAD IF I WERE ROBERT CLEROUX OR MIKE NIXON!!
Massimo
Jimmy-
I don't see where is the problem, as long as these persons are not classified together with the boxers but in other groups (the group of the announcers etc.). I don't think that their presence prevents deserving fighters from being inducted in the Hall of Fame. But I'm not sure about that. Is there a maximum number of people who can be in the Hall of Fame or something like that ? Eddie Machen was one of the very best between (more or less) 1955 and 1965. A fight between Eddie and Ali in the period 1962-1963 would have been very interesting. It would have been a tough test for Ali.
JIMMY DORSEY
I'VE BEEN RESEARCHING BOTH THE WORLD BOXING HALL OF FAME (400 INDUCTEES) IN LOS ANGELES, AND THE INTERNATIONAL HALL OF FAME (200 INDUCTEES)IN NY. THE WORLD HAS. MICHAEL BUFFER, AL BERNSTEIN, LARRY MERCHANT, WHERE IS MAXIE "PAD" KELLERMAN?? IF THESE GUYS NEVER TASTED A GLOVE, THEN THERE NOT IN THE HALL OF FAME, THERE IS A LOT OF FIGHTER'S WHO HAVE, THAT ARE NOT IN, EDDIE MACHEN FOR ONE, AND MIKE NIXON FOR 2!!
a light breeze a blowing
swizzzSWIZZSwizzzz Swizz Swizz swizz
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angelo
Richard Nixon was tough----I wouldn't underestimate his punching power.
Massimo
And what about Mike Nixon versus Wilt Chamberlain or Richard Nixon prime vs prime ?
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angelo
I think my money would be on Mike Nixon in a bar fight over Mike Tyson!
jd
all i know about tyson chicken is when he went down he did not get up! too much pride maybe? at least Morrison and Patterson etc. would get up, and Jerry would get up with "guns blazing" Frazier was a shock absorber, half his battle plan, it also bothered me tyson ducked the slugggers, i think it was for a reason, I agree cannot beat mike nixon !!!!!
Massimo
A pinko maybe has something to do with the color pink, while a commie maybe has something to do with the word "comedian" or with the verb "come". Is Pinklon Thomas a pinko ? He used to wear pink shorts during fights. Maybe Tyson would have tried to slug it out with Foreman but, likely, it would not have turned out well for Iron Mike. Lyle had some success in doing that with George, but he was similar in height to him.
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angelo
Peralta could box. Young Tyson would have had a hard time with young or old George. I think young George would have lifted him off the canvas with punches. George liked picking at shorter guys.
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angelo
Now you've been called a commie AND a pinko.
Massimo
...it could very well be lights out.
Massimo
Angelo-
I don't know that much about paleontology, what you say it's interesting.
I agree that young Foreman would have been favorite against Tyson and would have probably beat him in quick fashion, but you never know. After all Gregorio Peralta went the distance with Foreman. I believe that Foreman II would have had a pretty good chance against Tyson too. He didn't fear Mike a bit (it was actually the other way around) and, if he could manage to unload one of his big biceps on Tyson, he could very well be lights out.
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angelo
Massimo: I'm surprised at you! With your scientific knowledge, don't you know that it was determined there's no such thing as a brontosaurus? That what scientists actually found is that it was bones from two different dinosaurs that they THOUGHT made a new breed---brontosarus----but eventually figured out it wasn't a new breed, but two old ones? You pinko!
On Tyson: The Foreman who "smoked" Joe in 1972 or the Foreman who "kinked Norton in Kingston" would walk over Mike Tyson in two rounds. Foreman would dismantle him---possibly kill him. I don't think Tyson would get up five or six times like Frazier did----though I get your point about a single punch shaking Frazier more than it would shake Tyson. Also, by picking Foreman to beat Tyson easily----I am not disrespecting Tyson----only building up Big George.
Massimo
Jimmy-
Now at least I understand that "to be a commie" is a bad thing, even though I don't know exactly what it is. Tyson was never knocked down by a single punch, he was knocked down by flurries of punches. Lewis and Holyfield hit him with bombs all night long, the uppercut Douglas hit him with in the 10th round would have decapitated a horse. I saw him take punches from Donovan Ruddock that would have knocked a brontosaurus out. On the other hand, I saw Frazier stunned by a light puncher like Joe Bugner and by Ali, who wasn't a devastating puncher. I also saw Frazier stunned by Manuel Ramos. It happened more than once in Joe's career. I think that Joe had more heart than Tyson, but I suspect that Mike could take a punch better than him. I may be wrong, but that's my impression.
I was not judging Tyson's career as a whole which, after the Williams' fight, disappointed me.
However, I can't think of many fighters in history who were that strong physically at 19. Only George Foreman comes to my mind in this moment, maybe I should include Sonny Liston (but, as far as I know, there is no footage of Liston at 19). I saw Foreman fight at 19 in the Olimpics and he was already a "beast".
JD
MASSIMO: TYSON TAKE A PUNCH BETTER THAN FRAZIER, COME ON!, HOW MANY TIMES DOES IRON MIKE GOTTA TAKE THE TEN COUNT TO SAY HE WAS WAY OVERRATED?? FRAZIER NEVER TOOK A TEN COUNT, AND EVEN AGAINST BIG GEORGE, MASSIMO YU REALLY ARE A COMMIE!!! (JUST KIDDING). I SEE ON THE INTERNET APES THINK A TYSON-QUARRY WOULD ONLY GO ONE ROUND, NOOOOO! TYSON MIGHT HAVE MADE IT TO THE SECOND!!!! GOODNESS, JERRY HAD ZERO FEAR, THATS HALF THE BATTLE VS TYSON IF YOUR GOOD, THEY ALSO CALLED JERRY A NO MOVEMENT SLUGGER, NO MOVEMENT AM I MISSING SOMETHING? JERRY BEAT BETTER FIGHTER'S THAN MIKE DID, AND WITH NO "LAY DOWNS" (MICHAEL SPINKS!)
Massimo
Mike Tyson also had a huge neck that helped him a lot when it came to taking punches.
Massimo
I do believe that a 18-21 years old Tyson was much stronger physically than him at the same age.
Massimo
Steve-
I don't know what a commie is, but I do know that I never said that Tucker hit harder than Frazier, I said he very probably hit harder than Ali. However, it's possible that Frazier would have stopped Tucker late as his pression and costant attack could wear almost every opponent down. However, I do believe that a match with Tucker would have been very hard and painful, certainly no walk in the park. And I suspect that Tyson could take a punch better than Frazier. Yes, Ali was strong and could punch quite hard from say 1964 on. I do believe that a 18-21 years old Tyson was much stronger physically than him. But Ali was very fast at that age, (not that Mike was slow).
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